Should Rangel, Waters ethics trials be postponed until after elections?
FILE PHOTO: Maxine Waters [LEFT] (D-CA) speaks as Congressional Black Caucus Chairwoman Rep. Barbara Lee (D-CA), Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), and Rep. Charles Rangel [RIGHT] (D-NY) listen during a news conference on Capitol Hill (PHOTO CREDIT: GETTY IMAGES)
FROM CNN's Jack Cafferty:
As long as we keep re-electing the same vermin, this is the kind of garbage we get that passes for government.
The Hill newspaper reports that watchdog groups expect the ethics trials for Democratic Congressman Charlie Rangel and Democratic Congresswoman Maxine Waters to be delayed until - you guessed it - after the November election.
One group suggests that holding ethics hearings right before the midterms "overly politicizes" the ethics process.
But what about the voters? Don't they have a right to know whether or not their lawmakers are guilty of ethics charges before voting for or against them?
The way it works is the ethics committee must provide the member charged with all the evidence it plans to present in a trial - at least 15 days before the trial starts. So even if the committee gave Rangel and Waters their evidence this week, the trials couldn't start until the beginning of October... right around when Congress will likely leave town - again - to go home and campaign.
Meanwhile, the ethics panel investigated Rangel for almost two years before accusing him of several violations... including not paying taxes on a Dominican Republican villa and improperly using his office to raise millions of dollars for an education center named after him.
Two years!
Waters is accused of using her position to help a bank - where her husband owns stock - win millions of dollars in federal bailout funds.
Both lawmakers insist they are innocent and will fight the charges in a public trial. Waters has already won her primary in California and doesn't face a serious challenge in the general election. Rangel still needs to win tomorrow's primary here in New York.
Here’s my question to you: Should the ethics trials of Reps. Charlie Rangel and Maxine Waters be postponed until after the November elections?
Interested to know which ones made it on air?
Randy in St. Louis writes:
And why would we do this, delay the proceedings? So these two can win reelection? So they can hope not that many people read the news? This sickens me and I KNOW it's just the tip of an iceberg.
Overby writes:
I don't know if they're innocent or guilty, and I don't care one way or the other, but you'd think if they were innocent they'd be calling for an immediate trial to clear their names, wouldn't you?
Sherrie writes:
These ethics trials are used for harassment by both parties, but mostly by Republicans. It doesn't matter when they are held.
Greg in Pennsylvania writes:
Justice delayed is justice denied. If they are guilty, let them hang. If they are acquitted, then let's get on with the real issues facing the world.
Bill writes:
No, absolutely not. They must be held before the elections so voters have as much information as possible when they head into the ballot box.
Coralie writes:
Should have already been done, although the next Congress may be more willing to hold them accountable.
Kevin in Atlanta writes:
Ethics trials are just a show to reassure us that Congress is capable of policing itself. They mean nothing.
Jafsie writes:
Frankly, what scares me more than more of the same is the wackos who are running to "take back the government," many of whom have no experience, no ideas, and no brains. You think government now is "garbage", just wait and see what you get when the Congress fills up with a bunch of morons who view people who are able to earn a four-year college degree in under six years as "elitists."
Paul writes:
I love ya, man! But sorry, I like Congressman Rangel too.
@jackcafferty on Twitter
heck no, why would we want to allow criminals to get re-elected?
Jack,
here's my question to you...........Why?
Henderson Nevada
Hi Jack: The Rangel and Waters Ethics investigations have allready been delayed for months. There is no reason to delay any further.
Mike Gosselin in Springfield MA
No. But it doesn't really matter because all of our congress is guilty of underhanded dealings an collusion. Most of them are lawyers, and lawyers are the scum of society.
Absolutely not. They should either be cleared or shown to be scumbags in time for the voters to act based on what is revealed. Anything else would be a travesty.
No. If there's cause to act, then action should be taken, irrespective of when elections are scheduled.
This maneuvering to save people from the ravages of wrongdoing, is wrongdoing, itself!
Of course not Jack. I mean are we really going to pretend like American politicians might actually have eithics?
trials be postponed till after the elections? they should both be sitting in jail before the elections. this would let the voters think "real" reform has begun. they can let 'em out after the elections, the voters aren't really that stupid!.
Jack: It all depends on who is postponing the trials and why. If it is a majority of both parties on the ethics committee then I am fine with the postponement. I do not believe we should hurry the trial and leave something else undone before the election. I do believe the ethics committee moves way to slowly for my temperament, and yours to I guess, Jack.
Matterd not ! We need to rid ourselves of 75% of those in Congress and all those in the Whitehouse in order that we can survive as America.
Joanne
Mn
tampa, fl Justice delayed is justice denied. Both of them should be suspended without pay until this is settled. A pot of simmering tar and large pile of feathers should be kept close. Maybe we could then address the war crimes the last administration so proudly admitted to. We as a nation must stop not looking back at those that break the law as it appears they are above the law.
I feel if there is enough evidence that warrants an ethic trial, then by all means it should precede. Being so close to election should not have anything to do with a postponement of the trial. But we all know it will. The republicans will try to make political hay out of the situation but they would be doing the same thing if it were republicans going to trial.
If it was two Republican Congressmen accused of ethics violations, do you think Nancy Pelosi would postpone the trials until after the elections?
Why wait until after elections, if they're guilty which they are, we want to know now so that people can make up their minds.
These Democrats are cheaters as far as money goes. They're crooked. The Republicans have more of a sexual problems, except for bill Clinton. I think the public can tolerate the sexual problems more than tax cheats and fatten your wallet type politicians.
When are they going to start John Ensign's ethics trial? They should have Rangel's and Water's trials at the same time.
This is a mute point since the House or Senate never punish these people anyway. They just slap their hand so let's get on with something important, like jobs.
how can they get away with tax evation
Yes, but....it depends on whether you play dirty politics...The Republicans will insist on it! How do you spell "hypocrite" ? = GOP
psv Crossville, TN
No i don't think so. These offenses took place while they actively sat in positions of public trust and should have been decided long ago. Waiting until after an election is only postponing the inevitable. It also allows them to continue to be paid by the Tax payers. If they are guilty of something charge them and lets move forward if not then let them go. The sixth amendment guarantees them a right to a speedy trial without delay. Lets get on with it.
Justice delayed is justice denied. In this case, delaying their trials will deny voters the chance to make a decision based on the facts. [The reality is that the voters in Rangel's and Water's districts have been voting without knowing what their Representatives were up to for so long, they could be convicted in a criminal court, go to jail and stll be reelected.]
No. If they are guilty, the public has the right to know before election time so they know who NOT to vote for. If a murderer is guilty of murder, don't you want to know BEFORE you vote the person into office?
Should the ethics trials of Reps. Charlie Rangel and Maxine Waters be postponed until after the November elections?
I say if you are going to have Rangle and Waters on trial, make sure you include Ensign and Couburn's trials at the same time.
Ensign should be on trial for paying off his married mistress family with illegal jobs violating Federal Laws in the process and Couburn's trial should be for K Street and being in bed with Ensign over his misstress mess. Heck throw in all the K Street boys for their K Street ethics violations!
If you can throw them all on the fire at the same time then go for it. Singling out just the Democrats isn't right.
Jenna
Roseville CA
In a word, Jack, NO. For far too long the slime balls in both parties have used their office, political gamesmanship, and impending elections to avoid accountability for lapses in ethics, morality and, in some cases, serious criminal misconduct. Isn't it time we begin taking back our government by insisting on fair, impartial and speedy hearings of our elected officials. Isn't that what the Constitution calls for? Maybe we can get better quality persons for national office that way.
The problem is that whenever you see what the obvious outcome of a trial should be, the party that is always looking for a postponement is usually on the loosing side. Let’s get it over with and at least get something good out of this term.
If the trials are held before the elections, their constituents would find out in advance whether they're guilty or innocent. Surely we wouldn't want that. After the election, their head-in-the-sand supporters need to be able to say, "Why, I do declare... I had no idea he/she was actually guilty!" Nosiree bob, what we need to do is hold off on these trials until just after they retire. That would be at the end of their current terms of office.
Jack,
they should follow a normal time line established by precedent without regard to the elections.
Jim
Reno, Nevada
I don't understand why these "trials" have been postponed as long as they have.
No, they should proceed as fast as possible. Why should people vote for someone and then they are forced to resign if elected and are found guilty of all the violations they are accused of.
It's not going to happen. The republicans want all the controversy they can contrive before November. Two prominent democrats, who happen to be black, and whose heads are on the chopping block is campaign fodder money can't buy. Controversy is the aim and votes are the game. That the GOP has many skeletons in their closets is not relevant. We all know the game.
Jack, I'm sure the Dems would like to postpone them. Both people are in "safe" districts for the dems, so if they wait, they retain control of the seats regardless of the outcome of the trials. I would like to see the trials take place before Nov. so the people in those two districts can see what kind of crooks they have serving them. Maybe they'll have enough sense to put new people in there to represent them.
In a word, "no". The business of this nation needs tending to, and Congress is far enough behind as it is. Let us just push through this and move on to more important things – like saving this country.
No. Unfortunate as it might be, it would be playing the system to delay it. Lots of people have had such things happen the timing of which was either fortunate or unfortunate depending on where politically you stand. Clinton and Reagan come to mind. So, let the card fall were they will, and it will all work out in the end.
I don't know if they're innocent or guilty, and I don't care one way or the other, but you'd think if they were innocent they'd be calling for an immediate trial to clear their names, wouldn't you?
According to them, there should be no postponement since they are anxious to tell the world how they have been victimized by the "right".
JerryinGA
The trail should take place now if congress is ready and be over before the elections otherwise the new congress has to deal with the old congress's business.
Jack,
No! Get on with the job at hand, and if convicted they are kicked out. Congress needs to get back to doing its job for the people and not for themselves.
Cal
It doesn't matter one way or the other. Guilty or not it is all a game for votes.
We should have just one trial. Put congress on trial for ethics violations.
The circus environment on Capitol Hill is bad enough as it is and a Waters and Rangel trial would only add to the clown's performances that are already being acted out .
Does it really matter? You can either slap their hands now or you can do it later.
No, absolutely not. They must be held before elections so voters have as much information as possible when they head into the ballot box.
They should be postponed until they have finished the investigations into the following:
Dick Cheney's secret oil meeting.
The outing of a CIA Agent by Dick Cheney, and company.
Vitter's prostitution scandal.
Sanford's adultery charges, including going AWOL from his senate job.
And among others the "Foot Tapper."
nope do it now like we would a judge would not let us pospone our trials for a vacation already scheduled so bring them now and throw the book at these crooks
Ethics trials are just a show. To reassure us that Congress is capable of policing itself. It means nothing as members from opposing parties put more effort into pointing fingers at each other than actually getting things done...
If they are innocent of any wrongdoing and the trials are fair, no. However, the trials MUST be concluded before the November elections. To be going during the election would be a total injustice to Waters, Rangel and those casting a vote.
Thom Richer
Negaunee, MI
Jack, No, the ethics trial should be held now.
You are right – these are vermin! Let us do away with professional politicians.
No! But they will be.
Geri, Mead, OK
Well as the addage goes "Garbage in", "Garbage out."
" WAKE UP PEOPLE!"
I can see no reason to wait unlil after the elections. Congress can stay in Washington in October and do some work rather than campaigning and shaking hands and kissng babies.
I don't think it should be postponed that would be deceitful, I believe the problem with politics in this country now it's deceitful. Politicians should be an open book they should not have any secrets with the public. I feel if you want me to vote for you, there shouldn't be anything I can not find out about you.
No, no reason to do so. The voters have probably already tried those two, with the help of the media.
Yes they should either be postphoned or dropped at least until they have the ethics trials for Tom Delay, Vitter, Imhoff and all of the others that happened first. Why should Rangel and Waters be rushed when the others have gone on for so long?
no they should be as they are and any member of congress should have there name cleared be fore they are allowed re-run for office
Does it make a difference to Dems? Look at the districts represented. Politics will remain the name of the game regardless of party. Voters need to make more informed choices, not just vote for ill-conceived plans or lies disguised as campaign promises. If Obama and the current congress are not seen as the poster boys for bad management on behalf of the American people, shame on all voters, regardless of the demographics of the districts.
Justice delayed is justice denied. If they are guilty, let them hang. If they are acquitted, then let's get on with the real issues facing the world.
The most crooked congress ever since 2006......and we are sick of them. Most of them belong in jail.
Jane
Wi
i don't think that they should be delayed if i robbed a convenient store to feed my family i probably wouldnt be out walking around right now. as for two politicians they still haven't even brought Enron stock brokers or cheney to trial yet
It really dosen't matter. If it were started today, it probably would not be over before the election. Legislation should get the attention.
Let he ho is ithout sin cast the first stone. These two members of Congress would be tried by their peers. Take about your basic den of thieves. Sorry, I can't take this seriously. There are only two types of members of congress; those that have been caught cheating and those that have as yet to be caught.
Well it seems like they've already been postponed long enough already to acheive their goal. Even if the trial starts they won't be done for a long time.
No. Just let the dogs out now. Let the public know what kind of politics the Democrats play.
In this country Justice is a top priority. We have seen Republicans politicize even 9/11 so anyone who thinks Waters and Rangel would get a fair hearing, or even be the point of their hearings, is naive beyond belief.
Jack,
Why should these trials be held up? These folks are alleged to have committed crimes. The sooner we find the truth and deal with it the better we all will be.
David
Evansville, IN
Why? Are they afraid the truth will hurt their campaigns? If they're certain they have done nothing wrong, then get on with it. They should have nothing to lose.
I dunno Jack, looks like folks are going to put the vermin Vitter back in office, and then there's Ensign – who should have been thrown out awhile ago. And, they didn't impeach Stanford when they had a chance. If you change the rules for the ethics committee, then what you're going to end up with is a witch hunt. Water's, for instance, will probably be cleared of everything.
I seem to recall that ordinary citizens, when charged with a crime, are entitled to a fair and speedy trial under our justice system. (I can't quote the exact language in the law that says so but you get the idea) . Therefore, applying that same principle to Rangel and Waters would only be right so they can enjoy the same privileges as we ordinary citizens. To delay their trials, would be unfair and , Heaven forbid, we certainly don't want to be unfair to the illustrious members of congress.
Gary Boyd in Scottsdale, Arizona
"Virmin"? You have sunk to new depths Mr. Cafferty. Shades of "Fixed Noise". I agree that these people should be held to account. I also agree with your President that people should be able to disagree without being disagreeable. What purpose are you hoping to achieve by asking this question? More MSM foment. Sad
Hi Jack –
The trials need to start so that this information can get out to the voters before the elections. I am not so worried about the overall implications to the democrats as I am about the voters. Why would anyone want to vote for a person to get elected only to see them booted out if found guilty?
I guess politics is more important than ethics to our electorate.
Why not make a three ring circus during the elections. We have the Tea party in ring one, the party of " No" in ring two and now the Democrats need their side show going on in ring three.. What a joke the U.S. has become not only for we the people but for the world.
No, Jack, i don't think the "hearings" should wait. While we're at it, why don't we charge all the other "vermin", and get rid of all this "kind of garbage" we have that passes for government.
Those are some pretty strong words, and I don't remember hearing words like that with other members of Congress who have committed far worse violations (or crimes) that these two are accused of. Voters are a fickle lot, and they will usually reelect someone not committing crimes in their home district. That is why we have so many ethics-challenged people in Congress.
Take your shoes off, kick back, and relax. Life's too short to beat your head against this wall.
George W Bush, Dick Chenney, Paul Wolfowitz, et. al., still roam free Jack. Don't lecture us about how the ethics trials of Democrats being post-poned until after the mid terms is some sort of indication that America is corrupt and in peril.
Yes, postpone the hearings, But only if there is real work done… The people’s work, not the posturing to get reelected! Other wise lets drag them down to the trial and put them under the microscope.
...and why would we do this..delay the proceedings? So these two can win reelection? So they can hope not that many people read the news?
This sickens me and I KNOW it's just the tip of an iceberg.
No, they shouldn't be postponed, let the light shine on these sorry excuses for a legislator......IMO they are guilty but then again you have congress investigating some of their own.
Certainly, why not? You sure sound exercised about it. Must be because they're both Democrats.
What's the point? In our dire economic times do you really want to add to our unemployment problem? These two sorry souls have limited mental capacity, zero physical skills and no legal marketable skills. They will likely be forced to survive on the street and resort to a life of crime. They will likely end up incarcerated and still bleeding us dry.
No. One thing I have learned in all my years Jack is that the United States government seldom does anything that makes sense. This whole Waters, Rangel thing is a classic example of a corrupt government. President Obama promised transparency and open government and two years later we are no closer to finding out the truth on both of these politicians indiscretions. I mean even if they are found guilty the most that will be done is they will be asked to repay what they stole. Similar to what happened with Obama's income tax evading cabinet. If you ask me Jack this is NOT change I can believe in. This is just more of the same old political bull hockey.
No they should not be post poned,in fact,they should have been held a long time ago. This is what is disgusting Americans.
It won't make any difference. The idiots that keep re-electing these two baffoons will re-elect them even if they are convicted of every crime Congress can throw at them.
The voters absolutely have the right to know before the elections. It's probably too late now. How convenient.
Interesting that you point to the two democrats. What about Ensign? Wrangle did something wrong, Ensign did something wrong. Waters probably didn't.
Absolutely not – I'm even hoping for "verdicts" before elections. Drain the swamp was Pelosi's battle cry and politicians at every level should not be above the law or deserving of lackluster prosecution or delayed scrutiny. If it means the "opposition" gets elected unopposed, maybe that will right the scales of justice.
Does it matter? The trials will drag out for weeks, even months. We wouldn't get a conviction or exoneration until long after the election anyway.
At least with our representatives there is an ethics hearing. With biased and unethical journalists such as yourself there isn't even a warning label.
Should have already been done, although the next congress may be more willing to hold them accountable.
ABSOLUTELY NOT!
It's shameful they have been delayed as long as they have!
Call it as it is – a criminal is a criminal & let me know ASAP.
These ethics trials are used for harassment, by both parties but mostly by GOP. It doesn't matter when they are held.
Jack, by the time you get to the court room in this country you are probably very guilty. The amount of investigation and documented evidence necessary to prosecute someone in this country is huge. The process won't move forward without a lot of evidence to prove guilt. In other words, those two are not worthy of being re-elected. Don't vote for someone with an integrity level of minus one.
Jack, you begin your question with this statement:
"As long as we keep re-electing the same vermin, this is the kind of garbage we get that passes for government."
Frankly, what scares me more than more of the same is the wackos who are running to "take back the government," many of whom have no experience, no ideas, and no brains.
You think government now is "garbage" - just wait and see what you get when the congress fills up with a bunch of morons who view peole who are able to earn a four-year college degree in under six years as "elitists."
As long as we keep electing the same vermin? Sadly people do tend to re-elect their people but then some do lose occasionally. What we don't have control over is the garbage that goes on TV everyday and pushes their views Yes they call themselves "news reporters" but it's been a long time since the people who are supposed to be reporting the news haven't been bought and paid for just like the politicians.
yes Jack,it should be postponed.Do you really believe these trials will deliver a verdict before the November elections?I don't think so.So the voters will have no more information than they have now on these candidates.And by the way they may be innocent.
I don't think the trials should be delayed and if the member being investigated was to be suspended without pay until a verdict was delivered, they would want their trials held the day after the charges. That's speedy.
Jack – It won't matter when the ethics issues are addressed. Nothing they do in Washington will matter until voters get involved and get out and vote for good people who care about us and the destiny of this country. Right now elected officials in DC have two things on their minds – that is filling their pockets and getting re-elected. This has to change before there's change in America and it's up to voters to make this change.
I love ya man!but,sorry, i like congressman Rangel too.
No way! This is just another example of why the voters despise politicians. And where do the Democrats get off pretending to be more enlightened and superior to the Republicans?
Liberals are not the good guys, and never have been.
they need to be out of office and not let them get away with what they have been doing. the american public is sick and tired of politics as usual. all they will do is lawyer up and stall, stall, stall. not only the gop but the dems also. WE NEED TERM LIMITS REAL BAD. IT WONT HAPPEN IN MY LIFETIME.!!!
Somewhere there's a trade-off in this whole unethical mess, it's politics as usual.
Absolutely not.........would mine.
Absolutely Not!!!!! The American people have a right to know what these elected officials have been up to BEFORE they vote for them again. It might just change some minds.
Jack not to worry,no matter what they did your readers are mostly dems and will say leave them alone. They will keep to use there GET OUT OF JAIL FREE cards now. Obama will take care of them..
jack
sure they should but i noticed you did not bring up john ensign from nv.. is that because he is not a dem. if you are going to clean things up you have to go after the vermin in both parties. are you that one sided? do you work for cnn or rush?
Does it matter, Jack? The media hasn't said much about Congressman Rangel or Congresswoman Waters for some time, not even Fox! The late Senator Ted Stevens was indicted by a federal grand jury on 7 counts of corruption right before the 2008 elections, and he still managed to get 47% of the vote! He lost, but only by 1%. Nearly half of his constituents didn't care about the corruption. People just don't care about our lawmakers' conduct anymore – and the lawmakers know it.
Dearest Jack
Ethics + Congress = an oxymoron. They are all ethically challenged. And, alas – voters are stupid. They will keep voting for the same rascals (I'm being polite) & keep complaining that all their ills are Obama's fault.
Jerry
NO, NO, NO!!! Drain the swamp!
Jack nothing should be postponed in Washington. We elect these idiots to do the peoples business and I believe the people have the right to know how unethical these so called representatives are.