FROM CNN's Jack Cafferty:
"President Obama's Watergate" is how some critics describe the growing controversy over the "Fast and Furious" gun walking program.
House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa wants Attorney General Eric Holder to appear before his committee early next year. Issa says the hearing will focus on what Justice Department officials should have done to stop the program.
Operation Fast and Furious started in 2009 and allowed illegally purchased guns to "walk" from Arizona gun stores over the border to Mexican drug cartels. The program was meant to monitor the flow of weapons, but it went horribly wrong.
Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of weapons went missing... and they've been linked to the deaths of hundreds of Mexicans along with U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.
In light of the botched operation and what some see as the Justice Department's botched response, dozens of leaders are calling for holder to resign. More than 75 House members have signed a resolution expressing "no confidence" in his leadership.
Washington Times columnist Jeffrey Kuhner suggests this scandal is President Obama's Watergate. He writes there's been systematic coverup, and that Holder and his aides are guilty of high crimes including perjury, obstruction of justice and abuse of power. Kuhner believes this is even worse than Watergate, since no one died during the scandal that brought down Pres. Nixon.
For his part, Holder insists he's not going anywhere. In testimony before the Judiciary Committees earlier this month, Holder acknowledged mistakes were made but said he won't resign. He also said he doesn't think any of his top aides should step down.
Holder played the race card in an interview with the New York Times. He said some of his critics are motivated by racism, since both he and President Obama are black.
Here's my question to you: Could "Fast and Furious" eventually become President Obama's Watergate?
Tune in to "The Situation Room" at 5 p.m. ET to see if Jack reads your answer on the air.
And we'd love to know where you're writing from, so please include your city and state with your comment.
I think it could become his Iran-contra but watergate was about breaking and entering and cheating during an election.I think obama's ability to cheat during the election and offer favors has nothing to do with a failed attempt to stop drug pushers.In fact, Our customs at the ports allow more china white than mexico.but we keep subsidizing port costs as if its our saving economic grace..i wish they would fire the state dept officials that keep issuing visa's to money worshipping powermongers who bring the immoral 3rd world withthem as they take a house from u.s. citizxen who cant pay the non working bankers inflated housing rates.
Maybe if Darryl Issa clicks his heels 3 times and says over and over again "There's no place like home, there's no place like home." If that doesn't work, I think he's outta luck, Jack.
Depends on two things, Jack. If the chain of complicity goes to Holder or Obama, yes. Or, If the media would spend as much time investigating this as they did Watergate or reporting on Romney's wagers, an informed electorate might make an informed choice.
Not a chance.
Unlike past Presidents this current imposter was born with ONE exceptional talent, the ability to DECEIVE. It's an art form with him, a true master.
With the mainstream media along with Soros' BILLIONS $$$ behind him he can spin anything to his advantage. ANYTHING.
And, don't forget his audience, a party of moronic, clueless, blind with allegiance sheep.
He will never have to answer to any devious destructive act or agenda.
Anything could become President Obama's "Watergate." Solyndra was supposed to be the "Watergate." It's a real puzzler that the previous president, Mr. Bush, led us into a war of choice that has bankrupted the country, cost 4,500 American lives and over 100,000 Iraqi civilian deaths and nothing is said or done about it. Obama looks cross-eyed and it's a national scandal.
Jack,I do mean to be polite and I am not speaking from the right or left.However this could very well be Obama's
Watergate.I have never seen so many shallow lies and ducking under the desk and it boggles my mind to think that this program was ever thought up by anyone Bush or Obama.But to have the top of the top of all our leaders and managers
and not one knew anything......................just like the debt problem.................This is just as pathetic and the leadership
on both are absolutely F minus grade.
No! We lose 30,000 American lives a year in our culture of guns. It is no big deal since it is old wild west Dodge City all over our country every day of the year.
Obama better get fast and furious on jobs, if not that could mean his Waterloo, Watergate, Little Big Horn, or even an election.
I don't think so, Jack. A really stupid idea isn't the same as breaking several laws. As long as the President doesn't lie about what he knew, he should be okay. Can't say the same for the Attorney General, though; he obviously wants to stonewall Congress about his culpability. He should go away; voluntarily would be best. Obama doesn't need this hanging over him during the campaign.
No, it isn't, Watergate was a domestic cover-up scandal . It was directly related to the presidency. president Nixon knew about the operation and tried to cover it up, while fast and furious was cross border operation that started with the previous administration and has gone badly wrong. to then compare it with Watergate is a bit of a stretch
It should never have started during the Bushy boy administration to begin with. Why call it President Obams's Watergate?
The better questions is: who got paid to trace the sale of these guns and, as usual, did not do their job? Maybe there was mega pocket money received to ignore where the guns were going.
This will not be Obama's Watergate. At least, if this were to bring down Obama whereby Iraq didn't bring down Bush they will have to deploy the army into the streets. I sure as hell ain't gonna stand for that and I'm not even that big on Obama...
It shouldn't be, Jack. Wasn't there a simikar issue in the Reagan Administration and it wasn't his Watergate. And we have the Bush Administrations Iraq war and the waterboarding and that wasn't his Watergate. Republicans are such Hypocrites. But yet they always seem to get a pass on their actions.
The people of this country really have to ask themselves what the DOJ is doing, when they are running guns, allowing drugs to enter, and allowing people smuggling to cross our border. This looks like criminal activity on the part of the DOJ, pure and simple. One has to ask, why the DOJ not only refuses to take action, but is in fact preventing the states from taking action. One has to ask if we got a President, or the Chicago Mob.
Holder must resign, at the least.
Really? Did Obama sell the guns himself?
Could "Fast and Furious" eventually become President Obama's Watergate?
Why? The program was started under the GW Bush administration and continued under Obama's administration. Was it sad that an border patrol officer was killed with one of the weapons, sure, but the program shouldn't have been outted just because of it. Those who are in law enforcement or the military know that they could lose their lives in duty.
This is just another attempt at the GOP trying to slander Obama and deflect on what is really important for Americans.
Time to vote out the party of NO/GOP.
This will be Obama's "Watergate" about the same time Iraq becomes Bush's. Where were these moral hypocrites when Gonzo was telling Bush and Cheney Water boarding is legal. Yes this program went horribly wrong, but so did the Iraq war and that killed 4500 of our military and millions of Iraqis. Since Bush is scott-free, lets just move on.
There is no question someone should have been doing a better job riding herd on this program. However, if incompetence is a crime then the entire Bush administration should have been frog marched before prosecutors first for starting the Iraq War under false pretenses, and failing to competently win the Wars Iraq or Afghanistan on their watch. This is just an extension of the Republicans' increasing desperation to win in 2012 by throwing up as much dirt as they can hoping something will stick.
What does "race" have to do with criticizing either Holder or Obama? Absolutely NOTHING. Everyone knows that "Fast and Furious" was initiated as a way to go after 2nd Amendment Rights of the Citizens to own guns. If you can blame the criminal activity in Mexico on guns bought in the United States, then you can legislate stiffer controls and perhaps even begin to disarm the citizenry. Anyone who thinks otherwise just needs to see what has happened in other countries who no longer have gun ownership rights.
The reason Holder uses the "race" card is because he certainly cannot defend his actions.
And finally, I hope to God, that We the People are smart enough to see what this president is up to, and vote him out of office.
No, Jack, it won't. You know why? Because a mistake is a mistake - and not illegal to make. Minimizing it is maybe unwise, but not really a coverup or we wouldn't all know about it, would we? Also, while President Obama did select Holder, the failure of the program was due to low ranking members of the Justice Department, not Holder himself.
Watergate was breaking and entering, purely illegal, and the coverup tried to hide the involvement of the highest levels of the Executive in trying to keep the ties between Nixon and the people performing the illegal activies hushed up. Only the intervention of some pretty decent investigative reporters manged to prevent that from actually happening.
During the Reagan administration they sold arms to Iran. That seems far worse than what happened here. But the Republicans like to go for the jugular whenever they see a little blood, so we will just have to wait and see. I must say though whoever thought up this idea of selling guns to Mexico drugs cartel and then trying to trace them should be fired or resign.
Watergate might be a bit extreme in the comparison. But sometimes a bad idea is just that, a bad idea. We've all had them. I had one when I said, " I do." Eric Holder's mistake was his failure to acknowledge that the Justice Department had a bad idea and divorce himself from it immediately. Now he's married to it and the alimony payments just might include his job.
No. This botched enforcement job was stupid but it was a snafu. It was kind of like sending thousands of American troops to Iraq in the Humvee's without the appropriate armor, killing and maiming hundreds of Americans. Are you suggestingt that should have been the end of President Bush? After all Jack, if people didn't have the right to be stupid, you wouldn't be on CNN.
No, it couldn't. Not even close. But dream on. Oh, and check Obama's latest polling numbers.
Why would you go to a Canadian right-wing-nut for his take on Watergate? Wasn't Glenn Beck available. Maybe even Beck would know that Nixon was hands on from start to finish and that Nixon was subverting the democratic process.
Committing the highest treason, election tampering. Law enforcement screwing up a sting operation during a person's presidency isn't the same thing in any way whatsoever. Talk about a stretch.
The answer to Your Q : In My opinion, If I was in Obama's shoes – I would have done like "the Donald" would do. I would have Fired him – after an investigation proving what happened. After all the hearings, and Holder in the hot seat for as many hours as he has, Obama should have fired him, on the spot. In my opinion, I think Holder has got something "On" Obama, otherwise he would have gotten rid of him, Months ago.
Larry in Houston
Holder will use the Bush made me do it defense. Just another example of how incompetent our Government has become. Doug. Pepperell, MA.
You're grasping at straws jack. He hasn't been implicated in any cover up. No 7 minutes of tape have been found missing. It's nothing like Watergate. Holder, Maybe. Obama, I doubt it.
When will politicians learn that the coverup is always worse that the crime. They used to say it took a dead woman or a live boy to get a politician kicked out of office. Nowadays even those won't, but coverups will. Yes, it's embarrassing to let border patrol agents get killed on your watch because of programs put into place by your underlings. But that is not enough to get you fired. Holder's office is doing the classic Sgt Schultz "I know no-think" and making Holder look like Col Klink. Holder is going to continue to build attention to his own inadequacies as long as he tries to coverup what happened. He has officially said that the plan was not flawed and everything worked as intended. If that is really true and no one made any mistakes then the murder of those officers must have been a deliberate plan of his office. No one believes that. Either this was an error below Holder or by Holder and saying that calling him on lies is racist is just sick, and what I would expect of trash of his ilk. That one whine, all by itswelf, shows just how inept and unsuited for national office he is. If Obama stands by him then we can look forward to subpoenas not just of Justice Dept peronnel but of white House and even the possibility of a deposition by Obama of how he knew that Holder was already informed about F&F when Holder says he was not. That spectacle, and the constant drain of time and energy from the Obama team could well be his Watergate.
If President Obama continues to support Holder, then you can be sure that the Republicans will grab onto it like they tried with Monica Lewinsky's dress. I find it unfathomable that Holder believes that he maintains any credibility as Attorney General with his repeated gaffes and selective prosecutions that read like a map of political favoritism. The arrogance is amazing.
Holder use the race card from the beginning. As soon he was appointed he said that white people are cowards. Now that he is the one that turn to be the coward one he is using the race card on the same people that he accused me because that what he is a coward and a racist.
No. Republicans wish.
Republicans forget to mention that the Justice Dept. did many similar programs under Bush. This was one of their standard techniques, but in the case you mentioned, it just went very wrong.
I don't think so Jack. Having spent years working undercover and buying and selling narcotics, weapons and information i have seen some of the best and worst police work. No plan is perfect and no director is immune from prosecution if they are guilty of criminal offenses. Likewise they are not exempt from stupidity and dereliction of duty. People make mistakes that sometimes get other people hurt or killed. Lets wait and see where the cards fall. In order for Obama to be at fault he would have to have had direct knowledge of some impropriety that he should have or could have prevented and failed to do so. Putting incompetent people in charge of a division does not make Obama culpable. If that were the case then man would have been impeached 3 years ago.
Jack: No!! President Obama does not have a political slush fund to pay people to do evil deeds. President Obama has not covered anything up. Why, because he did not know all the deals, and neither did the Attorney General. This is a really moronic question.
I don't know how much it will affect Obama, but Holder has to go. He might be the worst Attorney General we've ever had and with his checkered past should've never gotten the job to begin with. He's simply using race to try and distract. You have to admire a man that excepts no responsibility at all and tries to make himself the victim by stirring up race hatred. Sounds like a quality guy.
It should be, people died because of this.
President Nixon was implicated in Watergate. Nixon was very aware.
A President has to be aware of what is going on in order to be implicated.
Obama is unconscious.
Obama could not possibly be aware and involved.
Now, Holder may well be implicated.
Watergate with presidential involvement–it is not.
They're ALL not ever going to resign. Holder should be held accountable for the mismanagement of this program. He needs to stop stonewalling,start to tell the truth and stop being a big cry baby. If the coverup leads to Obama he may be residing back in Chicago sooner than expected.
Nice try, Jack.
Oh please, how do you propose the oligarchy of 36 wealthy families in Mexico keep the attention off of their theft of Mexican resources from the rest of the population? Hmmh? America and Mexico are just following the lead of European neocon oligarchs in the practice of arming the poor and illiterate and plant a few lies and voila! You get free reign of all their resources. Did anybody ever ask how desperately poor Africans always had guns and endless supplies of bullets?
No. By all accounts the country launched a 10 year war in Iraq under false pretenses and without any tangible link to 9-11 and nobody was held accountable. Wall Street played russian roulette with mortgages from across the country, sending the economy into a tailspin and nobody was held accountable. With those standards already set, Obama should have nothing to worry about.
Holder is not going any where we will fight ,Issa should go to Lebanon,mind you im a white American woman
Fast and Furious was a bad idea. Watergate was an illegal idea. Nixon knew of the operation and actively participated in the cover up. The Fast and Furious debacle is akin to the Branch Dividian fiasco in Waco. In both cases rogue elements were acting without the knowledge of the AG. It wouldn't surprise me if there weren't elements within the justice department that did not respect Holder, because he was black, just like the ATF had no respect for Reno. Ride 'em cowboy.
Only if Iran-Contra was Ronald Reagan's Watergate
Sadly, no. The justice department prosecuted blago twice for asking but not getting anything other than 15 years in prison. Holder didn't prosecute CIA, and DOD people for war crimes and torture, didn't prosecute the banks and wall street for stealing trillions, didn't prosecute companies for hiring illegals, hasn't even tried to remove the mexican drug cartels which operate in hundreds of u.s. cities, and sweet talking obama will lie his way out of this mess too with the help of the corporate media.
It will be no more Obama's Watergate than the Iraq war, bank corruption, mortgage fraud and securities fraud were Bush's Watergate. Bush is personally responsible for the deaths of at least 4500 Americans, the destruction of our economy, and ruining the lives of millions of Americans. And yet not one person in his administration, nor the dozens of his cronnies who ochestrated our collapse have been brought to justice. If that level of behavior goes unpunished, why would a gun running scam bother anyone? Nixon and Bush both intended to decieve a nation, the Justice Department is just guilty of incompetence and stupidity.
Former President Nixon willfully acted to hie the truth from the American people and issued orders to violate law. There is no evidence to indicate that President Obama was even aware of of this "Fast and Furious" program until things hit the fan that didn't past the smell test. Come on Jack, a Harvard Law Professor and Community organizer and U. S Senator versus a perennial partisan politician that would do anything to win an election ? Your question is a comparison of clementines to apples scenario
Well, I suppose it all gets down to the classic question, "...what did the President know and when did he know it?" Nixon was involved in the cover up 3 days after the break in, I doubt they same can be said of Obama.
Jack, you might want to check your facts. It is my understanding that this insanity started under the Bush administration and was a failure but the problem was that it should have been stopped under the current group in charge. Yes, Holder should resign but so should all of the people that knew about this nonsense. Actually, everyone in this pathetic Congress should resign and not get any retirement or benefits.
Jack , I think you should check you information as the "Fast and Furious" started under the Bush admineration!
Not a chance. Republicans are, of course, making mountains out of everything they think might be a molehill, mainly because they don't have any REAL issues to roast Obama on. It would take an absolute idiot to not see through the Republicans this election cycle – they got NOTHIN' !!!
I think there is a good chance this could be Obama's Watergate. People have lost their lives because of this Fast and Furious escapade. This is very serious and it is not going away any time soon. I believe that if it comes down to Obama taking the blame he will throw Holder under the bus to protect his own skin.
I think comparing Fast & Furious to Watergate is a little over the top. Is this what we can expect from journalism these days – opinions with dog whistles depending on which point of view you're coming from? It's disgraceful.
Tell us more more about "Wide Receiver", Jack. Oh, sorry, you didn't mention it at all. Well, except for the tragic death of
U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, there is very little difference.
Personally, I am tired of the Republicans and their double standard tactics. Do we know how many people were
killed during "Wide Reciever"? No we don't, But we certainly know how many died in Iraq and Afghanistan,
let's "investigate" that "cover up".
Operation Fast and Furious may have been grossly mismanaged but it is certainly no Watergate. The intent of this operation was to stop or at least slow an illegal activity. It may have gone awry but that doesn't make it criminal. Watergate, on the other hand, was a deliberate, and stupid, criminal act carried out solely to gain political advantage over an opponent. The real shame of it was that Nixon personally participated in the cover-up. And just because a column in a tabloid newspaper suggests there has been a cover up does'nt mean that one exists. This is just another of the continous unsubstantiated criticisms of this president that started the day he was elected. I can't say what motivates these attacks; maybe they just don't like his hairstyle.
WATERGATE ???? really? I seem to remember a certain IRAN CONTRA affair involving the Republican Messiah, President Ronald Reagan. Alas, there was NO WATERGATE Analogy for him. To add insult to injury in this matter some of those who were indicted or convicted were all pardoned in the final days of the presidency of George H. W. Bush, who had been vice-president at the time of the affair. It seems like the rules seem to change depending on whether you are a DEMOCRATIC President or a REPUBLICAN.
There is a difference–Watergate had journalists like Woodward and Bernstein who were actually interested in cleaning up government and bringing down the existing presidency. while the journalists of today are more interested in keeping their hand selected president in power. That is a BIG difference.
Hardly. Watergate was about political dirty tricks at the highest level. This was a sting operation that had blowback. Watergate was deliberate malfeasance, this is just a dumb idea conceived in the bowels of the bureaucracy. At worst, some appointee will leave a bit earlier than planned and an SES member or two will retire early.
Let's see; Fox news has already decided that everyone is guilty and this is an impeachable Offense. MSNBC will defend the administration to their last drop of blood. CNN will be both factual and unbiased. Please CNN; do not ever change!
It will be swept under the rug like all the rest. Unless voters start asking about it. Then the pres will take the stance that was another persons section.
This sounds more like a law enforcement idea gone horribly wrong instead of the intentional political "dirty trick" which resulted in the burglary of the Democratic Party offices in the Watergate complex. One was an attempt to indict the higher ups of the drug cartels instead of just catching the gun running "mules" while Watergate was an actual crime conducted by the Committee to Re-Elect the President. The CReEPs went to prison while I believe DOJ officials should be reprimanded and resign.
No. His desire to be president and simply hold the office rather than do great things to reform and restore the econonmy is. University of Chicago economics is do-nothing economics. Small solutions do not solve big problems. He'll be remembered as the great speaker who sounded good and did little, but had a great foreign policy.
it is'nt already are the american people blind or fools
Well it could be or it could be that moment where Kennedy took resposibility for cuba and we let it go. .But the buck does stop at the presidents desk in the end.
In the end though we all know the real truth will never be allowed to see the light of day.
It's funny what different people see as serious. Under Bush's command we go to war in the wrong country, with no plan to pay for the war, under false pretence, many of our troops and Iraq population are killed. Under his watch he gives all the rich a tax break (how far in debt would we be if that had not happened). And charges the war debt on a Chinesse credit card, duh...Banking and mortgage lending scams, robbing the applicants blind, and insider trading done by our Representatives just to name a few scandals. And where is Bush setting ? Pretty comfortable,,, Obama's Water Gate...Clinton's impeachment...whats wrong with you media. It's the Republican Party that has destroyed the American image and the American Dream. Obama has done a far better job...What are you/media going to do if you wake up Tuesday 2012 election day and the American people get rid of the elites in government.
No more than Iran-Contra was Reagans.
No it should not. Bush and Cheney invaded a country that did nothing to us, killed over 4,000 of our troops and so many Iraq citizens that we have no count. Gave no bid contacts worth millions to Cheney's Halliburton whose shoddy work was so bad that our troops were being electricted in the showers. Tortured prisoners. Snooped on American citizens. Outed a CIA Ageny, Valerie Wilson, because her husband tried to point out the lies being told to take us into a war with Iraq. Plus many other illegal and disgusting happenings while they were in office. These are the illegal and disasterous activities that should be investigated and Bush and Cheney should be called before congress and then taken to court to answer these charges. Only than, after justice is done here, should we even consider this Fast and Furious situation.
"Blog is meant to deflect where the ball really is. But it won't Work, Jack. Where is Biden?? He will be Obama's downfall."
There is no way this should in any way be compared to Watergate. It should be a full fledged murder investigation. How in the world would the US Government just watch as the drug war in Mexico gains ground, knowing willingly that we have a part in it. While I feel sorry for Agent Terry, I'm surprised that there hasn't been more US men and women who have died from this. Yes Watergate took down a president, but nobody got killed. When lives are lost, it becomes a whole different ballgame. Steven in Fairfax, VA
Yes. Fast and Furious is much worse than Watergate. No one died as a result of the break in four decades ago, but hundreds are dead as a result of the Fast and Furious scandal.
In this case, the Justice Department behaved recklessly with the lives and livelihoods of innocent people. Career Justice Department officials thought the program was a bad idea, as did gun dealers. But they were told to go ahead, sell the guns, and allow them to be walked over the border. Given the raging drug war in Mexico, that was, at minimum, approaching criminal negligence. There's even evidence that the Justice Department planned to use Fast and Furious as a rationale for further gun control.
Furthermore, the Justice Department has punished the whistleblowers who opposed the operation and promoted the incompetents who led it. Where's the justice in that?
The Obama Administration, which has claimed to be the most open and transparent Administration in history, has refused to come clean about what it knew and when. Top Administration officials claim to have had no idea about the operation even though it was in covered in their briefing papers.
With bodies piling up, it's time for the Obama Administration's stonewalling to stop, and it's time for some heads to roll.
Jack, that's quite different from a blatantly and deliberate illegal breaking and entering. It may have gone ridiculously wrong, but Obama didn't order it. Besides. it was a good-taith attempt to catch drug cartel leaders. That's not illegal.
I admit I never heard of this. But comparing to Watergate???? Really... Don't we have more to worry about right now as a country??? Stop trying to distract the Amercian people from the REAL business at hand. We aren't dumb. We are watching you. Your jobs may be very well be on the line. As one of your employers.... I'm not pleased!!!!
Not a chance. If things get too hot, Holder will take the fall. This was a colossally poor decision-making by mid-level bureaucrats and not at all comparable to the outright criminality of Watergate.
It seems there is a lot of selective memory loss, the Mexican government was complaining about guns coming over into their country and there was zero U.S. government interest in this matter, it seem like every news agency was talking about This issue of guns going into Mexico, and all of this occurred several months before the border officer was killed,
what was homeland security and justice department doing why were they not investigating and reporting to the White House, my thinking is they already knew about it because they were the ones walking the guns.
A Nigel on gun control that backfired big time.
Yes sir there's a lot of selective memory loss.
This is far worse than Watergate! Hundreds are dead as a result of the administration's incompetence and short sightedness. Suprisingly, this issue has been getting little press coverage. We need a Deep Throat to say how deep this goes and a Woodward to report it!
It will become Obama's Watergate as soon as the Bush administration accounts for the BILLIONS of US dollars missing from Iraq.
Obama should relieve Eric Holder and replace him with competant leadership. The Attorney General is a good example of why we are failing self government.
This is not a Obama Watergate but the officials who condoned this operation should be held legally for any actions or death these guns caused.
Obama ordered Holder to change the way the U.S. handled tracking guns to Mexico according to media reports by David Ogden in March 2009. While this implicates Obama and Holder as complicit in how the previous sting procedures were modified, Fast and Furious was most likely conceived by Mexican cartel drug lords to be carried out in exchange for something Obama wanted, like campaign money or moving illegal immigrant voters across the border.
The evidence that Obama and Holder agreed to Fast and Furious as a pro quid quo deal with cartels is found in court documents related to the case of Vicente Zambada, currently on trial for cocaine smuggling. Zambada claims the highest levels of U.S. government (that would be Obama and Holder) made a deal with his father (Ismael Zambada), his father's partner (El Chapo Guzman), and their lawyer (Loya) to (1) provide guns to the cartels, (2) to allow the Sinaloa cartel to smuggle tons of cocaine into Chicago, and (3) to provide immunity to all drug informants working for the Sinaloa cartel for crimes such as drug smuggling and murder.
Maybe Zambada is lying; however, every claim he has made is consistent with demonstable evidence. Moreover, any documents that might implicate Obama or Holder as requested by the defense have been kept secret by our DOJ.
Mexican politics are influenced by the cartels and now that we have Obama and Holder in charge, the same seems to be true for the U.S. The U.S. House of Representatives may need to impeach both Obama and Holder before the Sinaloa cartel does more damage to the U.S. We are a law abiding nation and will not stand for this kind of nonsense.
The Justice Department's incompetence resulted in the Mexican Drug Cartels being supplied American firearms. The only way this becomes a Watergate Scandal for President Obama is if he is found to have had recorded knowledge of, or involvement in this operation.
No. Holder screwed up, and his head may roll, but I don't think it rises to the level of Watergate. Iran-Contra didn't result in impeachment of Reagan, nor in resignations. Bush I had Silverado, big nothing. They tried to get at Clinton with Whitewater, then with the Monica Lewinsky scandal, which also amounted to a whole lot of nothing.
Absolutely NOTHING came of Bush II's big lie to the American public–WMD–over 4,000 troops died because of this lie in Iraq, and hundreds have died in Afghanistan. There were neither resignations nor impeachments nor anything. If the deaths of over 4,000 men and women didn't bring anyone to justice, then neither will (nor should) fast and furious.
Never. Obama is the teflon President. Fast and Furious gets little coverage. Now if he was a Republican it would be worse that Watergate. The media will fall on their pens for Obama.
Fast and Furious is worse than Watergate. The actions in Watergate were less than Kosher campaign tactics. In the Fast and Furious operation, a U.S. Border agent is dead as well as hundreds of Mexican citizens all because of Holder's hair brained idea.
Wasn't there a program before "Fast and Furious" known as "Wide Receiver" that was in essence the same kind of operation and no one bothered to investigate what these were about until a Border Agent was killed.
No. As ill conceived as this operation was, it was not an attempt to undermine our basic democratic principles. Besides, there's no tapes . . .
I don't think this will be a Watergate. Unlike Nixon's situation, this situation doesn't have people calling for Obama's resignation or impeachment.
Jack, are you kidding? Of course NOT! The media is not "Out to Get" Obama like they were Nixon. And in case you have forgotten, the media even gave their liberal buddy Bill Clinton a pass on Lewinsky-Gate. Get Real, Jack.
If there was criminal wrong doing on the behalf of the Obama administration, then those people committing the criminal acts I expect will be prosecuted. However, "Fast and Furious" has not been even shown to rise to the level of the Attorney General, let alone to the President. So only time will tell if President Obama will ever have to explain "what he knew and when he knew it" as Presidents Nixon and Reagan did. However, based on what I know about the program, even if the President and his subordinates did know about the missing guns, you have to think that anyone with any amount of intelligence had to have thought this was a very bad idea prone to a bad outcome.
Yes it can be because not only did he allow illegal gun sales to take place but it lead to someones death and not only should President Obama be put in Jail but he should also resign as President of the United States.
I see you're bashing Obama once again. Fast and Furious isn't Watergate, if anything it is Irangate (remember that?). Reagan survived Irangate and Obama will survive Fast and Furious.
I hope so. We need this guy gone ASAP. Problem is, those behind the scenes never leave, so the policies will nonetheless never change. So impeach them ALL.
No one is aboe the law...Bobby in NM...its about time...
It will be a big controversy, but it won't be Obama's Watergate because thus far Obama hasn't asked for the cover-up and hasn't abused his power. This seems more like a Teapot Dome scandal not in the nature of the scandal (there were no bribes that I know of in Fast and Furious), but in the sense that Government officials will go to jail, but Obama will be unaffected.
Watergate was more about the president himself being involved in illegal behavior. What is going on at the Justice Department is about some mistakes made on by its members. How can we compare the two? They are light years away from each other. Lets not create a "scandal" where there may not be one for the purpose of the media having something else to destroy. Come on! Then the media wonders why some many think negatively of you guys. (no offense)
Are you kidding Jack. Not all policy goes smoothly as we all know the government is a 1000 headed beast. With that in mind, this president has done more for international relations and security than anyone in my lifetime. This is just another dust up by the GOP in efforts to de-throne Barry O'Bams in 2012.
Where to begin. Yes Holder should resign, but this will not touch Obama, the man knows well how to cover to backside, remember he's from Chicago. As for Holders assertion that some of his detractors are "motivated by race",,,he should be ashamed, and again yes he needs to resign.
Jack are you aware that law enforcement throughout the country use bricks of cocaine to bust drug dealers, women officers pretending to be prostitutes to bust johns, and even humans to accomplish their goals all the time. Remember the female informant that was killed after being used by officers to bust a drug dealers. Unless there is an overhaul of the entire process E. Holder should be left alone.
Check the history Jack. This is NOT the first time ATF has run this type of operation and it backfired before . This is thier incompetence not Obamas. The blame belongs to a system so compartmentalized that NOBODY knows about it until it blows up...
I am sure there have been much bigger screw ups than this. Holder needs to figure out what Issa is covering up, must be something really big.
Could lying to an entire nation to start a needless war resulting in the deaths of almost 5000 American soldiers become George W. Bush's "watergate"? "Fast" and...what? Hey, I wonder if Darrell Issa would have called for Reagan's head regarding Iran-Contra - something Reagan absolutely and admittedly knew about. If Republicans were any more sickening, there'd be a vaccine for everyone else.
No , it was a screwup by a new and inexperienced attorney general in over his head. But the worst failure was from the professionals at ATF & DOJ who should have known better. Holder should be fired for incompetence, but this is no Watergate. Issa on thr othet hand is a partisan opportunist and would say nothing if the current president was a Republican.
Aw, c'mon Jack. Contrast this momentary furror over "Fast and Furious" with "Shock and Awe" and a nearly trillion robbery of the national treasury (or debt) over an hysterical trumped up war (no pun intended. Donald), and of course all the activities of the so-called birthers and Tea party-ists. Who's been reading the tea-leaves lately? Really....
More like a "Tempest In A Teapot...!" Those who pulled this off this stupid and deadly farce, have already been caught and quit...only Fox News has been promoting to get to President Obama.
I doubt it very much. The Bush administration started these kinds of programs so if they attack the Obama administration for this they'll have to own up to their own mistakes. The way I see it, the Republicans will do anything to hurt Obama politically but never consciously hurt themselves.
Darrell Issa is bound & determined to take down President Obama. Will find any excuse to do so. He is a hate monger and disrespectful of the President. I do not believe anything he says. He is not credible. How about helping the middle class? Concentrate your efforts on governing, instead of stirring up a hornet's nest to create further division?
Why should it be? The program started under Bush. It was a mistake then, and, yes, Holder didn't end it immediately, but to try and pin the whole thing on the Obama administration is just another lame effort by the Republicans to do anything they can to make our president look bad. And, as an aside to Thinkforyourself, was it also a way to go after 2nd Amendment rights when Gonzalez (remember him? Bush's AG?) let it go forward?
Weren't the people at the operational level Bush appointees? So why blame Holder & Obama. Bad-d-d-ed
Not a chance. This is republican desperation. As the GOP watches its chances in November dwindle, tthis kind of noise will grow. F&F was clearly incompetence. The AG would do well to fire some people.
In short, NO. The difference between this and Watergate was that Nixon had firsthand knowledge. Even Eric Holder cannot be held personally responsible for guns getting into the wrong hands as that was (obviously) not his intent. You cannot have wrongdoing without intent. If you want to prevent guns from getting into the wrong hands in the future, change the gun laws. There's no need to own an AK-47 to hunt deer (a bow and arrow will do).
Jack your political afiliation is showing. Check with the Fox Network, They may be looking for another fair and balanced personality. Obama is not Eric Holder and he did not cover up an ilegal act. Fast and Furious was a mistake not a break in the law. Eric Holder and the Justice department have to answer for a lack of judgement not a lack of legal standing.
Both Nixon and Obama share the very same responsibility, the problem is whenever the current administration is called to accountability they press the same key, racism, get over it and do your job or else resign.
After Gonzales wrote his brief on the Geneva Conventions, this is nothing. We put up with 8 years of arrogance from the highest offices of government.
Holder was making an effort to enforce the law and it may have been a bad decision. At least he didn't do it on purpose like the Bush Regime did.
A lot is being made of this ill conceived affair. However we need a little context. The "Fast & Furious" guns make up what proportion of all the guns going to Mexico during 2009 and during the duration of the project? If its 50% or more it is a scandal. If it's less than 10% it's just an unfortunate incident in a continuing struggle.
Think your grabbin at straws Jack,fast and furious will no more be Obama's Watergate than Haliburton's atrocities were Bush and Cheney's Watergate.
Jack, Obama has had more scandals with the help of liberal media cover-up to qualify for Watergate! Unfortunately the media and liberals will all still blame Bush and the GOP. Read the moronic comemnts defending Obama and you can see how so many people have no desire to question their "dear leader"!.
Fast and Furious is an unfortunate event, it shows that the drug issue along our US/Mexico border is not getting the attention it deserves.
However, my comment is about the President's staff and the Attorney General using "the race card."
Why is it "using the race card?" Why is it so hard for some white people to see that it's not playing any "card" when it's true??!?!! The simple fact that the entire republican party has tried to stymie almost EVERYTHING the president had proposed since the day he took office, and that it's been obvious to anyone who cares to notice, only makes this FACT more obvious.
It must be nice to just say that whenever a black man brings up race, it's the "race card!" I want to come back white in my next life!!!!!
Ever notice when the chips are down and Obama and his gang can't decide what to do, they play the race card. Couple that with the class warfare they're engaged in and you have a perfect storm. Beam me up, Scotty!
Obama's Watergate? As I recall, the Regan Administration has worse abuses regarding Iran. If you're going to go that file, why don't we back up a bit and take legal action against the the Bush Administration and Dick Cheeney for starting a desasterous war and committed war crimes with torturing!
I'm beginning to believe there is deceit from within the Obama administration which has more plots and twists at the highest level than a Dan Brown novel.
I still don't get how Dems picked a community organizer who had NO foreign policy experience, NO business experience, NO military experience, and not much else, over Hilary.
The Pied Piper I call him, and perhaps when the truths come out (yes I placed an s), Americans will realize it was all deceit to destabilize this nation.
No,the President should not be held responsible unless there are further proof he was involved. It appears that the person that is not coming clean is the Attorney General Eric Holder. Mr Holder and others are being investigated and should be held responsible to the full extent of the law.
Obama didn't even know about this. How could it be his Watergate? You need a new question-thinker-upper.
That's what Darrell Issa wants. Remember the millionaire who funded the overthrow of Grey Davis thinking he could be California governor until Arnold joined the race? Darrel Issa is just trying to make some bogus connection between the White House and a badly run FBI operation. He has an axe to grind and will throw as much dung on the wall as possible hoping something sticks. Like Mitch McConnell he has vowed his only job is to make Obama a one-term president. Hopefully, people will recognize this for what it is. Just another smear job.
are u serious...were the WMD(Weapons of Mass Destruction) Bush and Chaneys watergate???
If anything were to bring down the Obama administration, it should be this. It is despicable, that people defending the US borders, as well as innocent Mexicans, are being killed with weapons supplied to drug cartels by representatives of the US govt! It is despicable, that such an underhanded tactic may well have had a secondary purpose, namely to be used as a wedge to make inroads into the fight to curtail/destroy the 2nd Amendment...
The Idea that President Obama should be held responsible for this folly is preposterous. The president is not responsible for day to day operations in any policy, he is far too busy to micromanage. The responsibility should fall to the DEA and those assigned to track the weapons.
It will be a big controversy, but it won't be Obama's Watergate because thus far Obama hasn't asked for the cover-up and hasn't abused his power. This seems more like a Teapot Dome scandal not in the nature of the scandal (there were no bribes that I know of in Fast and Furious), but in the sense that Government officials will go to jail, but Obama will be unaffected. This also feels a bit like Iran-Contra, where there was no where near enough punishment for those responsible. The Mexican cartel problem can be solved largely by legalizing marijuana, but Iran is a problem that the world is dealing with.
I don't think so. These are all republicans fabrications. They are not doing any work in congress for the people in their district. So they blame Obama for everything Sad. It is not going to work next election.
Should John Boehner be prosecuted for crimes against the American middle class ? Absolutely NOT.
Fast and Furious will become Obama's Watergate only if we can go back and posthumously impeach Ronald Reagan for Iran-Contra. Besides, it's no big secret that most of the weapons in the hands of Mexican Drug Cartels because of our lax gun laws and proliferation of guns in our gun-crazed culture. We have proof that someone can walk into an American gun show, announce publicly they can't pass a background check and still get a weapon. If Issa really wants to investigate something, he should really be examing the relationship between the National Rifle Association (NRA) and the Mexican Drug Cartels.
Jack, think back to when this all began. The morning the proverbial stuff began to hit the fan with this scandal, Holder stood at the podium triumphantly declaring the Justice Department had uncovered an Iranian plot to assassinate the Saudi Ambassador to the United States on American soil. All smoke and mirrors. The flagrant nature with which the Obama administration continues to put its political self-interest before that of the American people is saddening and insulting.
No, if Eric Holder did a cover up it's a pox on his house. I don't believe our president knew of any problems and if he had there would have been a change of the guard. Nixon was in on the Watergate scheme from the get go. He wanted to get re-elected.
fast and furious is a serious crime and should not taken lightly but sorry not watergate.. and i personally was not born then but through my studies i found watergate was a political crime to change the outcome of an election. Fast and furious is a crime against humanity, crossing borders and manipulating politics to avenge drug lords. I do not believe the president is responsible but I do believe Eric Holder his associates within the intelligence knew about and did nothing..
It's disgusting that Obama isn't making Holder and the others accountable for their idiotic and inept actions, but Obama's Watergate ought to be the Solyndra scandal...it's absolutely astounding he's getting away with using our tax dollars to invest in phoney-baloney companies that his campaign contributors own stock in. Not a single job was created in the $500Million+ of our money that was completely wasted in Solyndra alone. Why isn't the media making more of this?
Deryl Issa needs to watch the "LOOSE CHANGE" and concentrate his efforts on investigating the events of 9/11
What I find amusing about reading some of the comments on here is; the blame Bush argument, you guys really need to take your blinders off, please, our country is at stake here and this administration is headed down the wrong path, pitting American against American via class warfare is far more dangerous than anything else he might do....and its sad that so many Americans are falling for it...is it any wonder Guns sales continue to rise, they are preparing for what is coming, all in the name of returning our country to where it should be, in the hands of the people.
Please refresh my memory. What was it Oli North and Ronny were up to? Selling weapons to Iran? Fast and Furious was an operation gone awry. Nothing more. What would the opposition say if the Seal Team Six assault on Osama failed. This is nothing more than a political ploy. Move on!
John of PR
The Republicans can only hope. They are able to keep any "scandal" alive with the propoganda machine they have at
their beckon call. Why aren't we asking – do people neeed asault rifles in the first place? It was probably a long shot
at trying to plug another Bush leak, but his administration started this fire – Obama is trying to fight it.
It already is Mr. Obama's Watergate. Unfortunately, most of the media is running cover for him, and will continue to bury the story. Recall the media frenzy about Enron and their attempts to connect George Bush to Ken Lay? Then look at how the MF Global scandal is being handled. Barely a mention of it in the media, I can assume because the central figure in the scandal is a big buddy of Barack Obama, not to mention a former Democratic Senator and Governor.
Solyndra has been downplayed, Fast & Furious has been downplayed, the MF Global scandal has been downplayed, the civilians being killed by drones ordered by Obama is being downplayed. Will the media continue to cover up for Obama right until the 2012 election, and continue to not vet him as they refused to do in 2008?
This was an attempt by President Obama to try to get tougher gun laws put into place. Unfortunately, it didn't quite play out as he had hoped.
Obama's "Watergate" ? What about Bush and Chaney's Iraq Gate -sending 4,500 American soldier to their death to enrich his friends with contracts and make Dad happy. Fast and Furious program went wrong but nowhere near the wrong that the Bush and Chaney war that killed millions of Iraqis. Since Bush is scott-free, lets just move on.
Because they are black they don't get impeached. This is a travesty following others, they should have been called out the second Obama promised blanket amnesty to Mexicans, the new Backdoor amnesty laws they passed in 5/11. There money filtered to LaRaza and the back door billiions and extended pel grants. Between Obama, Holder, and Napolitano the Homeland security should be shut down.
no watergate.. but kinda close to circus on ice.. washington bureaucratics seem they can getaway with mismanagement lies and deceit but they will soon will answer to the people..there is so much we can take...
Fast and furious was started under a BUSH administration program. The real scandal is the laundering of hundreds of billions of drug money dollars by major American banks such as Wells Fargo. These banks then use the gangs that launder through them to kill the gangs that do not. That is how we are dividing and conquering Mexico as it implodes.
Why go all the way to Afghanistan for an opium war when we got a profitable drug war right next door that doesn't cost any American troops?
No it won't be Obama's Watergate. Watergate was deliberate criminal activity to benefit Nixon's political fortunes. Fast and Furious was an incompetently administered but sincere effort to address gun smuggling.
Jack, the short answer is NO! The media won't let it happen.
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