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February 14th, 2008
06:06 PM ET

What should Dems do about Michigan & Florida delegates?

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(PHOTO CREDIT: AP) 

FROM CNN's Jack Cafferty:

The Democratic Party is already under pressure from the Clinton campaign to seat the delegates from Florida and Michigan.

Last summer, the party stripped both states of all of their delegates for breaking the rules by moving up the dates of their primaries. At the time, all of the major candidates agreed to boycott the two states.

Fast forward 6 months and 8 consecutive losses for Hillary Clinton, and her campaign now wants the votes in Florida and Michigan to count toward delegates that would help her gain on Barack Obama.

Obama's campaign says this is a blatant attempt by Clinton to ignore the ground rules set last summer, adding that there's not a lot of appetite for this kind of stuff in the country or at the DNC.

Clinton didn't say a word last August when the party punished Florida. When it came to Michigan, Clinton chose to leave her name on the ballot while Obama removed his. She said at the time, "It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything."

But once Clinton won in Michigan, she suddenly changed her tune: Now she's saying, "The people of Michigan and Florida have just as much of a right to have their voices heard as anyone else." I wonder if she would be saying that if Obama had won.

Some Democratic activists are also worried the party is alienating voters in some of the country's biggest battleground states, and some civil rights leaders say it amounts to disenfranchising voters in Florida and Michigan.

One option still out there for both states is to organize party-run elections that would count toward delegates.

Here’s my question to you: What should the Democratic Party do about the Michigan and Florida delegates?

Interested to know which ones made it on air?

Mercedes from Miami writes:
They should stay home and watch it on television. They shouldn't be given the right to be there if all the delegates were taken away from the Democratic Party in Michigan and Florida. They have to learn for the next election. Sorry, Hillary, fair is fair.

Angelena from Michigan writes:
I'm from Michigan and I think it's crazy to try and count us now. Once I found out our votes would not count and my candidate was not on the ballot, I voted 'uncommitted' as many did.

Harriet from Florida writes:
I am a Florida resident, which as far as I know is still part of the United States. I did not get to vote on whether our primary should be moved up, so why should I be punished?

Janet from St. Cloud, Florida writes:
I am a Florida resident who chose not to vote in the Democratic primary because we were told the votes were not going to count. How many others did the same thing? Therefore it was not a true election. Do it again and have it count.

Joshua from Missouri writes:
Dear Jack, The rules for this game were set last summer. Both candidates agreed to abide by them, and so did the DNC. I think at this late in the game it is both unfair and unethical for Democratic Party to allow these votes to count. Allowing these votes to count will erode a substantial amount of the credibility that the candidates and party have gained through this election.

Bob writes:
It isn't the fault of the voters in Michigan and Florida; their votes should be counted and they should not be disenfranchised. Democracy cannot selectively choose who will be represented because a state wants to make its choice earlier.

Eric writes:
The rules were set, debated on, agreed upon, and now Hillary wants to change them. It shows she is desperate and reflects poorly on the Democratic Party. C'est la vie.


Filed under: Florida Delegates
soundoff (177 Responses)
  1. Brian M. From Fort Mill, S.C.

    It's too late to do anything, actually. If they have a change of heart, and reward them for their bad behavior, they will just do it again 4 years later. What they should have done was to take away half the delegates, just like the Republicans did. Notice that they are not mired in controversy.

    February 14, 2008 at 2:33 pm |
  2. Ismael

    Split them 50-50 would work for me...

    Ismael
    Visalia, California

    February 14, 2008 at 2:41 pm |
  3. David, Tampa, Fl

    Jack I live in Florida but am registered as no party affliation. The state party broke the rule and was given ample oppertunity to move its primary back to comply with the rule. The state party thumbed its nose at that ruling and so the national party had no choice but to do what it did and now must carry this out to its absurd conclusion. This is just another example in American politics of an over abundance of stupidity. Now live with it.

    February 14, 2008 at 2:42 pm |
  4. Rex in Portland, Ore.

    Tough question. Congratulations, Jack.

    Not even a re-vote in both states would be "fair" at this point, considering the fact that MI and FL wanted so very badly to be in the forefront. The best solution is to disqualify their delegates entirely. Enforce that awful rule. Wowee, that tastes bad.

    Then, after the entire DNC resigns in disgrace, perhaps the Dems can figure out a better rule for next time. Probably not.

    February 14, 2008 at 2:43 pm |
  5. Anna, SW Missouri

    I guess I am an optimist because I do not think they will have to do anything. I believe that both candidates care enough about the party that one will step aside after Texas and Ohio. This is the only way to prevent civil war within the party.

    February 14, 2008 at 2:43 pm |
  6. Ern

    Jack:
    How can we, as Americans, tell other contries how to run their elections, as Democracies, how to run a free society when we blatantly disenfrachise a segment of our own? All Democrats and Republicans should be outraged.
    The democtrates should allow ALL votes to count.
    Ern, Turlock,Ca.

    February 14, 2008 at 2:46 pm |
  7. Beverley, Fredricksburg Va

    Split the delegates between the candidates f & seat the delegates at the convention. This way Michigan & Florida get to count, neither candidate gets an edge over the other and the nominee will have some support going into the general election. I don't care what the actual vote count was – it can't be a fair vote when one candidate's name isn't on the ballot and no campaigning was done.

    February 14, 2008 at 2:50 pm |
  8. Mike Smith, New Orleans, Louisiana

    All those delegates should be counted. At least the Democratic primaries are not "Winner take all" like the Republicans. If that was the case, Clinton would be the nominee already.

    February 14, 2008 at 2:52 pm |
  9. Scott

    swollow there pride, count them, you just cant write off two million people.
    besides they wanted them counted in 2000.

    bowling green, mo.

    February 14, 2008 at 2:52 pm |
  10. W B in Las Vegas

    it's either a primary/caucus redo OR they don't get ANYTHING. whining NOW, after they BROKE the RULES, is CHILDISH.

    February 14, 2008 at 2:53 pm |
  11. Ralph

    Jack, the Democrats should hold debates in both states betweenObama and Clinton; then, with both names on the ballet, hold primaries again. Let's stop all these technicalities and formalities - the people of Florida and Michigan deserve to have a voice in the choice of the future Democratic Presidential candidate.

    February 14, 2008 at 2:56 pm |
  12. Rosemary

    Since FL and MN broke the rules, they should not be seated. However, if the DNC caves in and does show that it has a weak spine, then the fair thing to do would be to Split the delegates from each state 50-50. I know some candidates will scream. But it is the only equitable thing to do.

    By the time the convention comes up, delegates and popular vote will be decided. So I wish Howard Dean would stop crying wolfe, pushing the panic button, and let all of the States Decide. I serously doubt John McCain will get an edge on either of the Democratic candidates, just because he is the presumptive Nominee for the Republicans.

    February 14, 2008 at 2:57 pm |
  13. Clinton

    Yes I do think that they should count . How does the democrat nomiee expect to win without these two states in the fall. And God help us if we have another 4 or 8 years of another republican president in office.
    Clinton
    Kentucky

    February 14, 2008 at 2:58 pm |
  14. Jim Galvin

    Schedule new and fair elections where both candidates are permmitted to campaign and have their names on the ballots.

    PS: Is Obama planning to campaign in Hawaii? If so, is part of the greatest political team on television going to accompany him?

    We have seen Suzanne Malveaux do the chilly snow dance, now we could see her do a hot sand dance – wow.., what a glorious sight for an old geezer like me.

    And Jack in a speedo – ugh... what a sight. CNN Headline News grabber or what?

    February 14, 2008 at 2:59 pm |
  15. Dick

    Nothing. You can`t change the rules after the start of a game, why should you change the rules after a warning of consequences. This would be a horrible lesson for the young, energized voters, that have come out in record numbers this year. To go back to the elitist of the Democratic party to overturn their ruling, would be hypocritical. Michigan and Florida were warned of the consequences and should not be counted. If I forget to vote they don`t allow me to vote after the decision is made and I don`t like it.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:01 pm |
  16. Mary

    As a Florida voter, who voted for Hillary Clinton, I, as well as the 3 white males in my home, want these 4 votes for Hillary to count.

    COUNT THE VOTES!

    Mary from Florida (where the votes never seem to count)

    February 14, 2008 at 3:02 pm |
  17. David of Mississippi

    When the decision was made not to count them the book was closed. To open the book and count them now would be as undemocratic as any third world election. The outcome of this will show if we actually live in a democracy or not.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:02 pm |
  18. Terry, Chandler AZ

    The Democrats have not produced a winner in the last two elections. Sure the Supremes gave the 2000 election to Bush, but had Gore won his home state, Florida would have not mattered. This year, the Dems had better do it right and that means allowing a full delegation from Florida and Michigan. Also, the Super Ds should not give the nomination to Hillary if Barak is the clear favorite of the party faithful. Because there are a few of we Republicans who want Barak as president.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:02 pm |
  19. Evan, Phoenix AZ

    Jack,

    With all the bickering between both the Clinton and Obama camps about fairness the party would do well to hold the primary in Michigan for a second time since Mr. Obama's name was not present on the ballot. However, as both front runners were on the ballot in Florida those delegates should be recognized and allocated to both candidates based on their percentage of the vote.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:02 pm |
  20. Jed in Chico, California

    Nothing. I hate to think about the repurcussions from anyone's vote not counting, but that's what happens when you don't follow the rules like the other 46 states did (48 less IA and NH).

    Too harsh? Unfair? Tough! The voters of Michigan and Florida need to channel their anger at their respective state Democratic parties. Those state organizations knew they were breaking the national rules by having their primaries before 'Super' Tuesday and they knew what the consequences could be.

    Anyone who payed attention to the news knew that MI and FL were not going to count. Additionally, those results were skewed due to the lack of campaigning and a incomplete list of candidates in MI. Let's not forget that 40% of MI voters chose 'uncommitted.' One can only guess how many of those would have gone to Obama (or Edwards for that matter) should they have heard firsthand from the candidates and had a full slate to choose from.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:05 pm |
  21. claysee

    Jack,
    I heard you say that Florida was a beauty contest. One million people voted. Why did one million people vote? a. Some believed their vote would count. b. Some believed the DNC and the Florida early voting was only a dispute and would be solved. c. Others knew that other forces as the state legislature set the date of the primary. d. Kucinichi and Gravel and others were down here campaigning. e. Commercials (from National shows about the candidates were being seen too.) f. All the rules changed this year and all the other states, were granted early primaries. Why weren't we? Do you really think one million people turned out for a beauty contest. Most of the people of Florida believed the dispute would be over and turned out to vote. The rules this year already look like they were made in a back room by politicians. This is no better than what happened down here with the famous chads and George Bush being elected President. I can't speak for Michigan because that involves another problem..Obama's name wasn't on the ballot. Who needs SuperDelegates, the old time political machine already set in back room politics by not counting Florida. People down here are really angry. The Democrats are no better than the Republicans.
    Claysee

    February 14, 2008 at 3:05 pm |
  22. Richard

    The rule on michigan and florida should remain; doing otherwise is like favouring one candidate to the other. You do not change a goal post in the middle of a game. In democracy majority carries the priority; if this situation is not well managed there will be a backlash and victory will be handed to the Republican again on platter of Gold, not by populist agenda or candidate but by Democrats not able to act democratically to resolve very important issue.

    Richard,
    Douglasville,GA

    February 14, 2008 at 3:07 pm |
  23. Katie St. Louis MO

    Either Caucus or leave it be. The current numbers simply arn't fair. Counting Hillary's wins would be down right ridiculous for everyone.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:09 pm |
  24. David,San Bernardino,CA.

    Allow them to attend the convention and vote.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:11 pm |
  25. TLC

    Great question. I only wish the democratic party would ask the people in Florida and Michigan and truly listen to them. First, they should admit that it is wrong to tell them that they don't count, but that would require some humility especially on Howard Deans' part. Then they should schedule a caucus or primary to allow them to vote and count all of their delegates towards the nomination. Of course give the candidates an opportunity to campaign for a reasonable period of time. Wow, what a novel idea, DO THE RIGHT THING!!!!!!!

    Or, just give all of the delegates to Obama and let the lawyers get some more of the Clinton's money.

    Larry from Georgetown, Texas

    February 14, 2008 at 3:11 pm |
  26. Antony, Dallas TX

    I don’t get what the fuss about MI and FL is all about. They knew what the rules were. They broke the rules and should now live with their decisions. When you run a red light when rules say you shouldn’t, you cannot now protest the fact that you received a ticket claiming that those who abided by the rules did not receive one. If the delegates have to sit, they should go 50%-50% to both candidates since the problem of having them seated will be resolved.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:11 pm |
  27. Beth, Alabama

    The only answer is to hold new primaries in both states. Michigan will likely agree, but Florida will not play nice. In that case we can call in their offshore drilling teams to score a line at the panhandle and give them a big shove.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:13 pm |
  28. Ted Texas

    They broke the rules and it should be too damn bad but as we all know in this day and age you break rules & they change it to fit the situation.
    Ted
    Tx

    February 14, 2008 at 3:13 pm |
  29. paul W.Dc

    Jack,
    The votes should count as is.........these voters could only base their opinion on looking at the candidates policies and records. No sales spin, no Holliwood commercials just the raw facts , is there a better way to pick a candidate? We know how many voted for Hillary, the only thing missing is how many of the people in Michigan who didn't vote for Hillary voted for Barrack. Give him a percentage of that vote, with Proportional Representation System there could only be a very small number of delegates that would then be in question.

    This is the oldest democracy in the world. People voted out of a sense of pride and duty and they did that because they live in the US and their vote makes a difference. The Democratic Party has an obligation to seat the delegates just because the people went out and voted. You dont get to choose whose votes count and whose dont, you can make any other rule you want but when people go out and vote all your other rules are trumped.

    The people who want to punish Michigan and Florida have already done so. The campain money and hoop la that never happened in those states I'm sure hurt somone in the pocket book. It was the local party that was being punished but it wasnt party that voted it was the people.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:14 pm |
  30. Yvonne

    Let it be resolved Olympic style. One hundred meter dash, winner takes all.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:15 pm |
  31. George Wilson

    Well unless you want to change history they will allow the deligates from Michigan, and Florida be seated. They have both held fair elections, and have deligates to seat, so why let the President be elected by just 48 states. It wasn't the Democrats fault that the primary was moved up, it was done by the Republican Party who is in control of government in Florida that pulled all the strings to do so. Does this mean that the super deligates from Florida can't vote? It that is so then why can't the people of Florida have their say. It may not make any difference, however it could mean that it could make a hugh difference.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:16 pm |
  32. Kat from NH

    the most "fair" solution would be to have the state re-vote. It is hardly fair to automatically award Clinton all the delegates even though she "won" in those primaries.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:21 pm |
  33. Ayanna

    Three options: Split the delegates in half, have a caucus in each state or take the current results and distribute the delegates accordingly. No matter what, Obama will still win.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:24 pm |
  34. John from Arkansas

    They should be counted. The people of those states have the right to express their vote. The DNC should grow up and get over the problem of these states moving up their primaries. The State democratic officals are the ones counting the votes and doing the work. Barack Obama won state before these two states had their voting so people knew who he was. He did win Iowa didn't he. He chose not to exclude his name on the form. I'm growing disenchanted with the democrats, I need answers, not donation request from the Democratic National Committe.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:24 pm |
  35. Patrick J Cronin

    They should have no impact on the results and divided equally between Clinton and Obama. One of the runners followed party guidelines and did not campaign while the other did. Maybe Mrs Clinton should be penalized and given no deligates.
    Pat, Georgetown, IN

    February 14, 2008 at 3:29 pm |
  36. Bert D

    Primaries, like elections are supposed to reflect the will of the people. No doubt the will of Floridians and Michiganites has changed since their first primary, and no doubt a lot of voters did not participate because the results were not to be counted. It seems only fair to let them vote again with the benefit of hindsight. You know, I'm from Iowa, and I'd like the chance to vote again too.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:29 pm |
  37. Ro

    What happened to rules? I tell my kids not to do something and they do it, I reinforce with punitive measures. Frankly, I feel bad for the voters and blame those higher up the political food chain for this mess, but that doesn't mean we should just throw the rules out. The only way the delegates should be seated is if caucuses were held (they said there isn't enough time to hold new primaries,) after each candidate is allowed to campaign. After this delay, the states would be "penalized" for breaking the DNC rules. Accountability, cause and effect, we all must live with laws and rules.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:31 pm |
  38. Alane

    I think the Democrats already decided what to do about Florida and Michigan, nothing. They basically told us that if we didn't hold our primary when they wanted us to that our votes would not count. I hope they remember that in November. Floridians went to the polls knowing that their vote for a democratic nominee was null and void. The reason we had a good turnout in the primary wasn't the race for the Whitehouse, we were voting on a property tax amendment and everyone knows what a major issue that is for Floridians.

    Alane
    Hudson, Florida

    February 14, 2008 at 3:31 pm |
  39. Dennis in Gwinn, MI

    Split the delegates evenly. This thing was weighted for Clinton. No one in MI's idiotic Democratic party cared about fairness, only about their own agendas. if they are seated for Billary- she won't get my vote.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:33 pm |
  40. mike studders

    I am a Michigan voter and a card carrying democrat, I view this as a debacle and it could get worse..If the Hillary campaign has thier way and they call our election for Hillary, I rip up my card...all the other guys followed the rules and they were punished for it. I understand Senator Levin trying to make Michiigan more meaningful, but it didn't work. Instead we have unintended consequences. Had we waited our turn, Michigan would have achieved meaning,perhaps real,real meaning...

    February 14, 2008 at 3:34 pm |
  41. Richard

    These states opted to do their own thing. There is always a price to pay for one's actions. Therefore their delegates should not be seated . By taking their delgates out of the mix, one could assume that the overall number of delegates needed to win should decrease. What would that number be?

    February 14, 2008 at 3:37 pm |
  42. Jayne

    Florida and Michigan insisted on moving up their primaries, despite the Democratic Party rules. They wanted to usurp the power usually found in Iowa and New Hampshire and it backfired. Had they left their primaries alone, they would have had a major impact on the outcome of the election. They can't change the rules after the game is played. It would be unfair to count the delegates after-the-fact since it wasn't a bona fide election and the candidates didn't campaign in those states. I feel bad for the disenfranchised Florida and Michigan voters, but they need to take it up with the rocket scientists in charge of their state parties.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:37 pm |
  43. earl illingsworth

    The DNC, and it's chairman (Howard Dean) made it perfectly clear to Florida, and Michigan the consequences of getting out of turn! There are," protocals and rules" in life we must all follow in a society such as ours. It's,"spilled milk"as an old phrase explains ,(water over the dam) so lets all grow up and put it behind us. Remember this , if we start making acceptions, we will be headed down a slippery slope, and the Democratic Party has got enough on it's plate !!! Earl from Provincetown,Mass.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:38 pm |
  44. Bonnie/New Port Richey FL

    As one of the disenfranchised voters here in Florida, I believe that Hillary Clinton should get 1/2 the delegates the same as the republicans did. She kept her word and did not campaign here . Obama's name was on the ballot but he still did not win. In Michigan it is the same thing. She should get 1/2 the delegates . If he didn't put his name on the ballot that is his problem . The agreement was not to campaign.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:38 pm |
  45. Paducah, KentuckY

    Stick to the rules.
    I guess we don't like to play by our rules, huh?
    Well, it's time to get with the program.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:41 pm |
  46. Bob/Traverse city Mich

    I'm from Michigan Jack and if archaic party rules matter more than our citizens opinions than they should henceforth consider us Republicans. Then they could please declare us a third world country and send us some foreign aid.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:41 pm |
  47. joe m

    i was taught when i was a kid that if you break the rules be prepared to pay the price. these two states acted like self-important kids and decided they could do whatever they wanted, so i say now they should pay the price. besides, how do they expect to assign the delegates for these states? giving it to only one candidate won't do, b/c in one state the remaining other candidate wasn't even on the ballot. dividing them equally isn't really an aswer either, b/c who really knows how many each candidate would have actuially won. let these delegates attend the convention, but they should remain without a vote. action - reaction

    February 14, 2008 at 3:42 pm |
  48. Tammie

    Grandholm screwed us by breaking the rules. We made our bed now we need to lay in it. Too bad, so sad. Time to move on and forget about them.

    Tammie
    Midland, MI

    February 14, 2008 at 3:43 pm |
  49. Peggy Ledbetter

    Atlanta, GA

    What should the Democrats do about the Michigan and Florida delegates? Seat them without votes or work out a compromise. The Democratic Party's whole credibility and fairness is at stake here. Hillary's name was the only name on the ballot in Michigan, and in Florida, not only did the voters turn out for the primary but moreso for a property tax bill. In Florida, Hillary had name recognition and organization in place for several years ( I know, I have relatives there). And, really, would Hillary want those delegates to count if she hadn't won? Do you penalize students in school for abiding by the rules, and reward students who break the rules? Same difference here.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:43 pm |
  50. Frank

    All names were on the Florida ballot and nobody campaigned so all were equal. Florida should be seated as any other state would be. Only Hillary was on Michigan ballot and nobody campaigned. Hillary gets her votes and the undecided get split between Obama and Edwards. If they are not seated as they voted, the Democrats will do what they charged Bush and the Republicans of doing in 2000 by ignoring peoples votes.

    Frank
    Enfield, CT

    February 14, 2008 at 3:44 pm |
  51. California Voter

    Jack, the DNC was stupid to cut off their nose to spite themselves. That being said I think they should do everything they can to have those votes counted. The Democrats can't afford to let 2 million voters go to the Republicans. Personally, I think they should give both states half the delegates and be done with it. In that way they are not totally disenfranchising the voters and also reflecting the way the vote went for each candidate.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:44 pm |
  52. Matt in Dallas, TX

    I don't understand how they expect either candidate to reach 2025 pledged delegates when they have taken all of Florida's and Michigan's delegates away. Combined, they have a total of 366 delegates. If they aren't going to count those delegates from those states, they should lower the amount of delegates needed to win the nomination by 184 delegates (50% of the 366 from MI and FL + 1). Thus making the target delegate count needed to win the nomination at 1,843.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:45 pm |
  53. James Cape Coral,FL

    Jack,
    As a Florida democrat I would be furious if they did anything but a re-vote. In the months leading up to the FL primaries I was reminded repeatedly by the DNC that my vote would not count due to having no delegates, as punishment mind you. So when it came time to vote I didn't see the point as I'm sure thousands of Floridians did. Now Clinton is claiming victory here and they might release the delegates. Wait just a damn minute, I'm American too and my vote should count. You can't tell millions of registerd democrats that their vote wont count only to turn around and count the votes as if everyone voted. Am I the only one who see's the wrong in this? If they give the delegates to Clinton based on this sham of a primary then my vote in November will most certainly go for someone other than a democrat.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:48 pm |
  54. Ronald

    Jack,
    The delegates should count. Now I know you are going to say that Obama's name was not on the ballot. Well, that's HIS fault. He had the same opportunity as Hillary. The way you have been sticking up for him, if Hillary"s name was not on the ballot and Obama's was. You would be talking out the other side of your mouth.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:50 pm |
  55. Keith from Irving, Texas

    Split it 50/50, Jack, or do nothing. You get the same results.

    I hate to see voters penalized because their 'elected officials' didn't follow the rules, but if we allowed the votes for Florida and Michigan to count, (in particular when there wasn't any real campaigning – and when some candidates weren't even on the ballots)... what happens the next time?

    What message are we sending to the other states in 2012 and beyond? It's OK not to follow the rules?

    February 14, 2008 at 3:51 pm |
  56. Josie, Phila, Pa

    Jack, This is a tough one! Not allowing these states to be seated is voter suppresion. How can the democrats hold a convention with only 48 states? How can we entrust the democrats to run the country if they can't run an election? If the Democrats weren't worried about being fair this thing would be over by now!

    February 14, 2008 at 3:51 pm |
  57. Karl in CA

    Because the Michigan and Florida Democratic Committees decided to break the rules, the voters of MI and FL shouldn't have to give up their representation in the selection process. Re-run the primary and charge the state committees for the cost. As stupid as the rule is, it was in effect at the time and should have been followed. Shame on MI and FL for their arrogance. They were acting like Republicans.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:52 pm |
  58. Corey, Maryland

    just divide them in half, that way they get represented and no campaign gets bent out of shape that someone got more. Either way Obama will win so it doesnt matter.

    Obama Richardson 08!!!

    February 14, 2008 at 3:53 pm |
  59. Debby Tulsa OK.

    OH WELL it won't matter in the long run...........The republicans and independent voters will give it to Obama while us democrates sit back and watch. Then in the fall they will all vote for McCain. Thats the plan.........vote for Obama now, we have a better chance of beating him in the fall..........they don't think they can beat Hillary.

    I think everyones vote should count. Maybe the dem. party will learn from this.

    Debby
    Tulsa Ok.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:55 pm |
  60. Greg, NY

    In short? Nothing. They knew they'd be penalized for breaking the rules, and the candidates followed their rule of not being able to campaign there as well.

    Hillary broke these rules by leaving her name on the ballot in Michigan and now she wants them changed just for her?

    Give me a break.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:55 pm |
  61. Thomas, Tallahassee FL

    They should do exactly what they have already said they would do. Do we look back after the super bowl and have debates on whether the touchdowns should actually have counted as 10 points each?

    February 14, 2008 at 3:56 pm |
  62. Andrea

    All people's should have their vote be counted. However, because the punishment has played out in this way-the only solution is to have another primary after each candidate gets to campaign in each state.
    THe whole reason people are swarming towards Obama doesn't only have to do with his message of hope, so much as that hope comes as a result of his being forthright and honest, humble and intelligent. What's more is that he is a real listener. He speaks his own words. Hillary is underhanded and very manipulative-everything but honest and people can see right through it. SHe strategizes instead of really thinking about something and communicating it. It is always always manipulative-what can she gain from it. I keep thinking back to the waitress who interviewed on NPR. Hillary and her troop stopped and ate at a small diner in a small town and talked to the single mother waitress there and then left without leaving a tip. SHe hasn't a real clue about the reality of these situations she goes on and on about.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:57 pm |
  63. Michael "C' In Lorton

    You can't cry over "spliied milk." If you don't play by the rules, then you suffer the consqeunces. Their nothing they can do; they can't even clean up the "spilled milk." Endure, and live with it.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:58 pm |
  64. Julie VanDusky

    Jack, the DNC emailed me yesterday to ask me for money for the general election. I emailed them back telling that they should be collecting money to help Florida and Michigan have new primaries, not collecting money for the general election. I also told the DNC that if they they don't allow Florida and Michigan to have re-votes and assign the delegates appropriately, not only would they not get any money from me, they wouldn't get my vote in the fall. It would be a waste of money for me to donate and a waste of time to vote if they don't allow them a say in the process because they're basically throwing away TONS of electoral votes and almost assuring we lose. That's like investing into one of George W. Bush's former oil companies- if the person in charge doesn't understand how to make a profit, no matter how much money that company has, it will utlimately fail. I have better things to do with my time and money.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:58 pm |
  65. GJ - AZ

    Their state leaders made a mistake, let them take the heat for it. Don't seat them! It's about time we start putting some accountablity into the system. Maybe if the current leaders lose their next election because their constituents are upset the next set of leaders will take notice.

    The only thing that would be fair is to have new elections if they want to seat the delegates. If they don't want to pay for the new elections, too bad, the delegates don't get seated.

    It would be interesting to see if this push for setting the delegates would be so strong if Obama was the winners in the two seats. Some how I don't think we would be having this dialog if it were so.

    February 14, 2008 at 3:58 pm |
  66. J.R.

    In MI Obama took a risk and took his name off the ballot, no one told him too, no one asked him too...he made this choice himself....then called my home for over a week for me to vote uncommited so that those delegates could go to the polls and vote for whoever they wanted. He removed HIS name...his problem. Our votes should count. (p.s. Jack we are not idiots here in MI, we watch the news, we read newspapers, and we were well informed when we voted. Even the "uncommited" was on the news 3 times a day, the reporters even showed us hicks where to pur our mark.)

    In FL Obama broke the rules first by running ads on the cable news channels..Also, as you have reported, a life sized cut out cardboard of him self at the voting stations....He broke the rules...sit them....

    February 14, 2008 at 3:58 pm |
  67. J Frigan

    Split them in the same proportion as the overall standings of each candidate..

    February 14, 2008 at 4:00 pm |
  68. Chelsea in California

    Well the rules that the DNC broke in FL were caused by the Republicons who run the state in FL twisting their arms to move up the primaries- this was all out to the control of the DNC in this state because they are not the governing body in FL. Barrack now want to deny and suppress the hugely populated state of FL their delegates- all because he lost to Clinton, and would loose to Clinton again in FL. Yeah he really cares about the people of America, that is unless they support the Clintons. His spoiled rich kid attitude, pettiness and lack of decorum are to be expected from someone with so little life experience.

    Also, everyone really needs to calm this freaking out over the super delegates (that they just realized actually exist) this is the arrogance and ego of young voters in action. Just because some clueless young people just heard Barrack’s nonsense (propaganda) about the super delegates, and are now all hyper and up in arms- doesn’t mean that super delegates should be pressured by this ridiculousness. This is the system that IS and HAS been. ( Barrack may have noticed this if he knew anything about his party.)
    I have heard Barrack supporters on your network speculate about this turning into 1968 or the Watts Riots all over again. Such whispers and threats of a race war breaking out if super delegates make the wise choice of supporting Clinton are utterly absurd and bullying.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:00 pm |
  69. George Dengler

    The rules were set by the Party that any state that moved their primary to a date prior to Super Tuesday, except those approved to do so, would not have its delegates seated. State officials in Florida and Michigan ignored the ruling and set primaries ahead of Super Tuesday, knowing that by doing so the delegates would not be seated. All the Democratic candidates agreed that they would avoid the Florida and Michigan primaries and not campaign in those states. In Michigan only Clinton and Kuchinik were listed on the ballot. Although Clinton got the most votes there, over 40% of the voters went to the polls to vote "uncommitted".

    The Party should either stand by its ruling to not seat the delegates from Florida and Michigan or, possibly, provide for caucuses to be held in them later. To seat those delegates pledged to Clinton by default, after ruling that they would not do so, would create turmoil among Democrats and possibly cause them to lose in November.

    Finally, for Clinton to push for seating the delegates seems to me to be cheating and may reflect the panic setting in among those in her campaign

    February 14, 2008 at 4:01 pm |
  70. Dennis G form FL

    If the predetermined rules stated, before the game started, that Michigan and Florida did not count than those are the rules that should be followed. You make the bed , you sleep in it. Simple, huh?

    February 14, 2008 at 4:01 pm |
  71. mel, Deerfield, IL

    They either have to abide by their rediculous autocratic ruling or give half to each and let them compete for the rest.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:04 pm |
  72. Ben

    You can't reward them for breaking the rules so reinstating all their delegates is out of the question. They keep complaining to the DNC about this while it is the people they put into office who made their vote worthless!

    Let's give Michigan 1 delegate to give and Florida 3.5.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:06 pm |
  73. Greg from PA

    Caucuses are the answer. It's not fair to the people of those states to be disenfranchised because their state officials were idiots. Clinton's push to simply seat the delegates would unfairly penalize Obama for following the rules of the DNC. And it's too costly to hold full-blown primaries again.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:06 pm |
  74. Don, Kingman, AZ

    There is an argument to be made that the votes in FL and MI should be counted, regardless of the fact that the party in each state broke the rules in order to add importance to their role in the selection process. Then again, if we count the delegates in these two states, perhaps we should change the result retroactively of Super Bowl XL - after all, it's apparent that the Patriots must have cheated to beat the Eagles. Just ask Arlen Specter.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:07 pm |
  75. john in Columbus

    Jack:

    Regardless of whom we support or whether we agree or disagree with the DNC's decision to strip Michigan and Florida of their delegates, a punishment was meted out and the party should stick with it. To change course in mid-stream is no better than a parent who grounds a child for misbehaving for one week then decides two days into the punishment that for whatever reason it is either too harsh or too difficult to enforce. The message sent to the child is that he or she can continue to break the rules because the consequences are of no consequence. I have been contributing to and avidly reading the comments posted on CNN's political ticker, and what is starting to concern me is the divisiveness between the supporters of the two campaigns which could drive those who have backed the candidate that doesn't get the nod to the Republican side simply out of spite. A decision to reverse the rules here will only make that gap wider.

    John in Columbus, Ohio

    February 14, 2008 at 4:09 pm |
  76. BJ Smith

    To stop madness further down the line;
    1. Give Hillary Fl, all names were on the ballot, Barack still gets his share
    2. Split Mi

    Fair to both, & she can't make waves & cause chaos

    BJ from FL

    February 14, 2008 at 4:10 pm |
  77. Ted, Las Vegas, NV

    To not count the delegates from two states of the union is disgraceful. Especially Florida the poster child of voter disenfranchisement. First it is the Republican Catherine Harris that stopped the count in Florida followed by a Republican State Legislature that moved the primary... why do the states Democrats get punished? I lived in Florida during the last fiasco that led to 8 years of Bush... supported Gore and then Edwards... this year I was a precinct captain for Hillary. Michigan is in serious economic trouble... I think Oregon may be doing better economically at this point... count the delegates proportionally to how they were voted... the other catagory represented not Hillary and should go to Obama... I like them both but feel Hillary is the best choice to get things done where Obama is more rhetoric (says the right things) but a case of over promise underacheive I am afraid... dream ticked Clinton/Obama... 2nd choice (since I am from a caucus state) Obama/Clinton!

    February 14, 2008 at 4:11 pm |
  78. Chuck B Coastal NC

    Both states made there choice and refused to comply.To go back now would be wrong, esp. since in Michgan only had Clinton on the ticket.That would not be right.I voted for Bill and he was a great president, it is time for the Clintons to step aside and allow the voters to deside this issue and not them.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:15 pm |
  79. Phil from CA

    Jack, I find it very ironic that these two states broke the rules just to become more legitimate and now they find themselves without any say at all. If they would have just stayed put, their primaries would have had a real impact.
    The DNC has only three fair options now: redo the primaries, leave out the delegates, or split them evenly. The former is the best choice, but it would be costly. A caucus would be cheaper, but the Clinton campaign would probably be against using this method. To protect itself in the general election, the DNC should split the delegates so that FL and MI will at least be seated at the convention.

    Phil
    Madera, CA

    February 14, 2008 at 4:15 pm |
  80. T.J. in Windsor, Colorado

    Typical Clintons, If Hillary was in the lead, she wouldn't be saying a word. Hasn't Bill ruined his reputation enough?

    February 14, 2008 at 4:16 pm |
  81. DAK

    Jack
    Absolutely nothing! The two states knew the rules and decided to ignore them. The Democratic Party made a decision and now need to stand by it.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:18 pm |
  82. john Marlton NJ

    The democrat’s shouldn’t worry about it, electronic voting machines won’t count democrat votes in Michigan and Florida during the general election anyways

    February 14, 2008 at 4:19 pm |
  83. Karen

    Let Howard Dean and his Democratic Committee cronies pay for a revote. We are P.O.'s up here in recession filled, winter wonderland. Ah heck, why even ask us – they will do what they want and I hope the repercussions will change the hokey method. I actually think both parties should have the same game plan. Simply count our votes. No other special intrest groups, no superdelegates, no winner takes all. Base it all on percentages that equal the number of votes each candidate receives every time we pull the leaver, punch holes, x boxes, etc.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:20 pm |
  84. Mike

    Jack, its too late to do anything about FL or MI. Hillary was very sneaky when she flew into Florida after the polls closed while Obama and Edwards kept their word not to campaign in FL. Hillary won Florida because of name recognition.

    It would be unfair to give her the FL & MI delegates now and tell the millions of young people who voted for Obama that Hillary wins the nomination because of those delegates. It will be civil war between the old timers, women and young people of the democratics party. While Hillary and the Dems may win the general election now but, they would lose an entire generation of voters and will fail to win any elections for a while after that.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:21 pm |
  85. Adam, LV, NV

    Jack,

    You have to seat them, it is the only option. You can't make them hold a new primary because of expense and you can't hold a caucus because it would be unfair to the people who voted and want to vote again but cannot because of the caucus rules and how they are handled.

    The DNC cannot afford to lose these states in the general. When (not IF) they seat the delegates, the DNC must also force Mr. Obama to pubicaly apologize to the voters for saying that their votes did not matter.

    Obama (as would Edwards) would get delegates out of Florida because he was on the ballot, so he really cannot complain on that point. Michigan could be sticky, but it was in fact HIS choice to remove his name from the ballot and pander to the voters in Iowa. If he was really arrogant enough to think that the DNC would not seat those delegates, it's his fault.

    This was not the fault of the people, this was the fault of the local party officials. Those are the people who should be punished.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:22 pm |
  86. Jerry

    Being from Florida I'm to the point that Howard Dean and the Democratic leadership can kiss my a–. I think the Democrats in Florida should start a group called Democrats for McCain. I bet McCain would make sure our votes were counted.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:23 pm |
  87. JC from Lexington, SC

    Florida & Michigan broke the rules and they were given every opportunity to move its primary back to comply with the rule. They choose not to and thumb their nose at the ruling and the Committee. Now they will have to live with their decision. That is what we teach our children. When you break the rules you are punished and no amount of kicking and screaming on Hillary's part will get them out of their restriction. Then again, Hillary is the spoiled brat of the Democratic Party, so maybe she will get her way after all.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:24 pm |
  88. Randy

    Sadly, the Florida and Michigan voters need to ask their respective state leaders; how could you be so stupid as to get us 'de-certified' for violating the national DNC's mandates agreed to by the Clinton and Obama campaigns?

    The matter is closed; abide by the agreed to rules for the primaries and next time, learn from your mistakes.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:24 pm |
  89. Jackie

    The votes need to be counted. I am sick of everyone say only Hillary's name was on the ballot here in Michigan. Obama and Edwards chose to have their names removed from the ballot in Michigan, so whose fault was it then, not Hillary's. They would have also gotten some delegates if he would have left his name on the ballot. They left their names on in Florida, why I wonder did Obama and Edwards think Florida was ok and not Michigan. Life is full of choices, Obama made his, nuff said. If my vote was not good enough in the primary, Obama won't get my vote in November if he is the nominee.
    Jackie
    Owosso, Michigan

    February 14, 2008 at 4:24 pm |
  90. Theresa from Mississippi

    I don't know about Michigan, but I think Florida should go ahead and secede from the union before they can mess up anymore elections.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:26 pm |
  91. Jeanine

    The two states knew the rules and so did Hillary. If she wants the delegates so bad, she can give Florida the $10 million it needs to do a re-vote. I bet the outcome wouldnt be the same. If there is a next time for you Hillary, maybe you will take all states seriously and you wouldnt be begging for delegates that dont count. Doesnt sould like a smart experienced wanna be nominee to me. Get yourself together. Cnn says it wont be enough delegates to reach the 2025. Whoever gets closer to that should win. Texas for Obama!!!

    February 14, 2008 at 4:27 pm |
  92. Oray

    I was planning on voting for a democrat this year, but if the committee decides to include votes in two states where Obama did not campaign, then I will vote for John Mccain. Clinton cheated. It is that simple. If the votes from the states are included then the integrity of the Democratic Party will be destroyed. I won't vote for cheaters. Clinton agreed not to campaign there, but she did anyways. Obama removed his name from the ballots in Michigan. If the committee listens to Hillary on this, then the Democratic party becomes as dirty as the GOP.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:29 pm |
  93. Annie, Atlanta GA

    Irregardless of what any one candidate may want, the voters of MI and FL should be heard. They didn't have a say in any of this political jostling, so they shouldn't be the ones to pay. Give them back their voices.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:29 pm |
  94. onenibble

    Hillary should have the votes from Florida & Michigan. The people voted for her and everyone's vote should count. After all, thats what democracy is all about. Obama should not complain, he chose to have his name removed.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:30 pm |
  95. FJA , calif.

    Florida and Michigan delegates should be SEATED. After all, the
    people voted for Hillary and they deserve respect for going to the polls.
    The delegates are important to the elections.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:31 pm |
  96. alex

    I think the best solution would be to hold new contests, primaries or caucuses, with all candidates participating and campaigning.
    Hillary can’t say she’s for the rules when they work in her favor, i.e. superdelegates, and against them when they hurt her, like in Michigan and Florida.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:32 pm |
  97. Danielle

    In all fairness, you can't change the rules of a game in the middle of it playing out, so it should just play out as is. Otherwise, it will cause another "scandel." Nobody needs that. I am voting in Texas for Hillary Clinton because I don't listen to preaching, I prefer action and I see more clearly defined plans coming from Clinton than Obama. I don't need him with words to lend me inspiration or hope, those are things I lend myself every day. I learned a long time ago to look past the talk and look squarely at the facts. The fact is Hillary has better plans, more experience, and frankly more drive to get the job done. The country needs a strong leader that isn't full of hot air. At least if Obama does become President and can't deliver much in the way of "change" he only offered the people the hope for that anyway. He has never promised anything, probably because he can't make good on a promise like that. Translation, all talk and no action in the end. Clinton 2008!

    February 14, 2008 at 4:32 pm |
  98. Debra

    They made the rules so they need to stand buy it . Michegan and Florida did wrong and the desision was made so leave it that way. We dont need there delegates to see this through the other states will do the job for us. GO OBAMA

    February 14, 2008 at 4:33 pm |
  99. Geoff, NH

    Theres nothing fair about disenfranchising two of the most important states in the nation. However, they can't simply reinstate the delegates in the present situation. If they did, it would have the same effect on the party that a superdelegate-decided nomination would: destroy the party. Either the party continues to disenfranchise the voters in these states, or holds a new election. Simply evenly dividing the delegates from these states does nothing to solve any of the problem we face here, as if the delegates are mandated how they should vote, it is exactly the same as disallowing their votes to begin with.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:33 pm |
  100. Jim Bloom

    This isn't a kickball game on some school yard! This is the nomination process for our President! Both state parties knew what the rules were before they moved their primaries to an earlier date. The candidates agreed not to campaign (something that Sen. Clinton has forgotten). They have only one solution, a primary or a caucus held in April or May paid for by either the national or state parties. Otherwise, rub your sore bottoms and sit in a corner.

    Jim
    Chicago, Illinois

    February 14, 2008 at 4:33 pm |
  101. WM

    Well Jack, they've done it this time. Only this time it's really done, you can't change and count the votes now and you definitely can send them in to campaign, the perception of impropriety would destroy the parties credibility and whomever the nominee. The super delegates are doing enough of that already.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:34 pm |
  102. Bob from Rome NY

    They need to stand by the ruling they have already made. You can't change the rules in the middle of the game. Especially if it gives one candidate an unfair advantage over the other. There was only one candidate on the ballot in Michigan due to the ruling of the Democratic Party. No real campaigning was done in either Michigan or Florida. None of the delgates should be allowed from either state.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:34 pm |
  103. tco

    During the 2000 and 2004 Bush elections, Florida was the only state that seemed to count regardless of how the rest of country voted; so give them a taste of what we endured and never count Florida's votes ever again. As to Michigan, the DNC should pay for a "revote."

    February 14, 2008 at 4:35 pm |
  104. wsholar, LA

    The party should stand by its policy– period. Florida and Michigan broke the rules, so as they had been warned, their primaries must be treated as though they never happened, and their delagates stay home and watch on TV with the rest of us. Any other outcome, and the party loses every ounce of credibility it ever had.

    If I were a Democratic voter in Michigan or Florida, I would be joining a movement to oust those state officials responsible for breaking the DNC primary rules and flushing my contribution to the nomination process down the toilet.

    It is incumbent upon Florida and Michigan Democrats to sort this out at the state level. The horse has already left the barn at the national level.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:35 pm |
  105. WM in Charlotte, NC

    Well Jack, they’ve done it this time. Only this time it’s really done, you can’t change and count the votes now and you definitely can send them in to campaign, the perception of impropriety would destroy the parties credibility and whomever the nominee. The super delegates are doing enough of that already.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:36 pm |
  106. Minda Lillie

    If the democrats want to win this fall they should seat both delegations. A re-vote is not just. The voters did vote, their votes should count. The DNC is wrong to discount these states. The proportional nature will even out these delegates. The way Obama folks want it is to benefit him and disadvantage Hillary. The Hillary voters want to count the votes. Obama should be wiser than to disenfranchise voters he will need in the fall if he wins the nomination. Never seen such a bunch of cry babies. Wa, wa, wa, if they don't vote for me, they shouldn't count. Geez!

    February 14, 2008 at 4:36 pm |
  107. Bruce St Paul MN

    Does the DNC have a fear of success? After the fishy results of the last two elections, they should not be punishing anyone in their own party. Now that they have, they can't pretend that an actual primary election took place in those states. Maybe they could run a little election in a few key precints and Wolf Blitzer can assign delegates based on exit polls and John King's squeezable maps.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:36 pm |
  108. Brent Taylor

    If Barack wins the popular vote and the elected delegates, then Hillary comes in and "STEALS" the vote by the Super Delegates then she is no better then the Republicans that screwed over Al Gore in the 2000 elections!!! If that happens she will never get my vote! I would protest and every other true democrat should do the same!

    February 14, 2008 at 4:36 pm |
  109. Pat - Florida

    I was upset when that rule was made – and still MAD. We need a national primary for all states on the same day. Super Delegates & NO delegates – Whats the matter with these people?

    February 14, 2008 at 4:37 pm |
  110. Aisha (I-Sha),KY

    Let these two states vote again,but this time make sure both candidates are represented on the ballots. Sorry Hillary, I know you think you've won Michigan,but how is that possible? That just sounds like practice to me-not a win.

    Aisha
    KY

    February 14, 2008 at 4:38 pm |
  111. Kevin- Webster, MA

    They created this monster. If they seat the delegates then next time every state will jump on earlier primaries. If they don't seat them the voters suffer. Maybe the voters should have done something about this when the idea was first presented. Giving Hillary all the votes and delegates is not fair and definately not the answer. Distributing them evenly also may not be fair. The Democratic party should pay for a do over, or stick to the orignal rules.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:38 pm |
  112. bigdaddyj

    Wilmington, Delaware

    The party has the right to make it's own rules. It's not a State's Rights issue. Don't like the rules? Work to change them or find a new party. We have 48 states that followed the rules and two, Florida and Michigan, who out of sheer greed, didn't.

    Their votes should not count! Lessen proportionately the delegate total one needs to win the nomination.

    PS, why won't Sen. Clinton provide us with her tax returns like Sen. Obama did? She throws 5 million dollars around like it's nothing. I'd like to see her tax return. I'll show her mine.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:38 pm |
  113. John - Chicago

    This campaign was run with the expectation that these delegates would not be counted. To count them now would be to introduce a totally unnecessary and ill advised wildcard element to the race. We are not Republicans and we must not change the rules in the middle of the game.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:40 pm |
  114. Ann, Newton, New Jersey

    As they say, "Them's the rules!".

    February 14, 2008 at 4:40 pm |
  115. James H.

    Where was Hillary when the party made its decision not to count their votes. I will tell you. She was doing what she does best; being not trust worthy by keeping her name on the tickets for those states. Hold the line or split the votes 50/50.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:45 pm |
  116. Katharine Greenebaum

    For once, I think the Republicans have the right idea. In Florida, give the state half of its delegates. Neither candidate campaigned in Florida and both names were on the ballot. Michigan is a bit more difficult, since only CLinton's name appeared in the ballot. I am not sure why that was the case. However, there was a sizeable number of delegates who are uncommitted. I think it's safe to say that most of those people would have voted for Obama. I think it is really a bit silly and disingenuous to say that the people in both states did not know what was happening and who was running. If I lived in Michigan, and did not want to see Hillary as the nominee, I would have voted uncommitted or submitted Obama's name as a write in. While one cannot be certain if all the uncommitted voters in Michigan wanted to vote for Obama, it is certain that not more than the uncommitted wanted to vote for him. Under this analysis, I would allocate the two states half their delegates and split them as outlined above.

    Katharine
    Los Angeles

    February 14, 2008 at 4:45 pm |
  117. C. Farrell, Houston, Tx

    The Democrat Party should tell Hillary, Michigan and Florida that nothing will be changed. John Edwards was still a candidate during their caucus and todate he hasn't endorsed anyone.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:46 pm |
  118. Mischelle from Illinois

    Jack,
    Thank you for posting this question. Don't you think that the voters in Michigan and Florida would have stayed home if they completely understood the 'ground rules' and that their votes would not count. This is disenfranchisement and the Democratic National Party should do the right thing by admitting their mistake and allowing those delegates to be seated.
    If they wait for a court to decide that the delegates will be seated, it will do irreversible damage to the Democratic National Party. Here's what I see happening, this issue will be in the courts right up to the convention...leaving no time for alternative options except to seat the delegates with the standing results of the FL and MI primaries.
    A word of advise to Obama, there is a greater distaste for a sore loser, and asking for a "do-over" is juvenille. Frankly, it shows how nieve he really is, he should have left his name on the ballot. And if he thinks that it is wise to ignore voters of Florida and Michigan, well...again, it shows his lack of experience.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:47 pm |
  119. Brian, Spring Hill, FL

    Jack,

    As a voter in Florida I feel that if the DNC does not seat the delegates or count the Florida Primary results, I will vote Republican for the first time in the general election. Do the rules of the DNC override our Constitutional rights to vote? If they do, then this whole election process has been a sham. I'm sure the voters in Michigan feel the same way. Maybe the voters in both states should take legal action against the DNC MAybe it is time to get rid of the electoral college and let the popular vote decide. Oops I forgot, that would not let the delegates get favors or jobs from the candidates. What a shame, it would actually make the candidates answer to the voters.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:47 pm |
  120. Evan FL

    Nothing. The Clinton campaign is obviously worried that they may not win the nomination based on the current numbers. Rules are rules and we need to stick by them. You can't start a football game and then change the rules in the third quarter. If in fact the delegates are used, we need to take a serious look at our system of elecitons and fix the problems.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:47 pm |
  121. CA Native

    HOW could Florida or Michigan consider the vote taken to be legitimite? Candidates weren't on the ballots. Open campaigning not permitted.

    My solution: Let all the other primaries play out. IF the delegates from Michigan and Florida were to make a material difference in the outcome of the nomination.. THEN re-run the vote in those states. But if Hillary is so far behind that winning those two states would not give her the majority of state delegates... then don't waste the time or money.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:50 pm |
  122. tony salvaggio

    The DNC should work with the states and have "new" primaries. Anything less disenfranchises the voters of the states, and we've already been there before in Florida.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:51 pm |
  123. tony......utica, ny

    i cant see how 2 million votes arent counted ...especially in fla where the republican legislature moved the primary up mot the fla democrats .....voters are being punished for what the state GOP did .....also if they want to change rules about super delagates they should change the rules about fla and mich........also iowa, NH and SC all broke the rules ......just read the idiotic DNC rules and you will see i am right

    February 14, 2008 at 4:58 pm |
  124. Brian, Spring Hill, FL

    Jack,

    To add to my earlier comment. It was the Republican led legisatlure in Florida that voted to move the Florida primary forward. The legislators knew that this would cause the current problem with the DNC. The Republicans controlled the election in 2000 with Katherine Harris deciding not to count thousands of votes and giving the state to the Republicans . Now they have manipulated the voting process again to attempt to ensure a Republican gets in the White House.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:58 pm |
  125. lee

    As a Florida resident, we all knew if voting Democrat would not count. Yes large number went to the polls, to vote on a property tax bill, that was on the ballot. Florida has outrageous property taxes! But people who dont own homes, didnt bother going to vote...what for? They were told their vote would not count. Who is going to represent them?
    The states, the candidates and the DNC knew the rules....no turning back now. The election can be won without Florida or Michigan being sat, and the White House can be won too.

    February 14, 2008 at 4:59 pm |
  126. Sarah Jane

    Don't count them. It's simply not fair!

    February 14, 2008 at 5:00 pm |
  127. Joe Gallagher, Maryville TN

    The Party should do nothing about the Michigan and Florida delegate situation. Let it stand. The penalty for moving up the primaries was unwise in the first place. But all agreed to it, and no one said boo until Hilary won the votes in those states. The Dems made their bed and then wet it; now let them lie in it.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:04 pm |
  128. Leif Pettersson

    Let the voices of the people in Florida and Michigan be heard (and counted)!

    If the US is a true democracy there should not be any other option!

    February 14, 2008 at 5:06 pm |
  129. Independent Michigan Voter

    The primaries in FL and MI were totally unfair! MANY VOTED OR CHOSE NOT TO VOTE BASED ON THE RULES AT THE TIME OF ELECTION–NO DELEGATES WOULD BE AWARDED. Voter turnout in MI was very low based on these rules. To say anyone won these unfair elections is totally wrong–these primaries were a waste of time and money due to the very poor decision of our state leaders. The rules are 0 delegates, that's the way it should stand! If delegates are to be awarded, then the only fair way is to have a re-election or split the delegates 50-50 and then take away all the superdelegates of all those state officials that may this very boneheaded decision!!!

    February 14, 2008 at 5:08 pm |
  130. D. Casey Sebastopol, CA.

    This points out exactly why Hillary Clinton is the "same ol' same ol'" and why she is the past...

    "At the time, all of the major candidates agreed to boycott the two states."

    She agreed. Now she's changed her mind. I guess she really is for change 😉 as long as it favors her. I am disappointed in Hillary Clinton.

    The only fair thing you could do is:

    1) a do-over, with ample time for campaigning
    2) seat the delegates, but split the vote evenly between ALL candidates active at the time of those primaries
    3) make all those delegates "super" and let them vote as they will.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:10 pm |
  131. Lou

    Jack:
    I do not know about Michigan but here in Florida once again we feel disenfranchised and alienated. The Obama Camp even today were dismissing the Florida vote as a “beauty contest” even thou we take seriously down here… a 1.7 million democrats went to the polls on primary day. How can you dissmiss that? I wonder how Obama plans to win the Whitehouse without us. I voted for this man and I am disappointed to say the least and I regret it to the point that I will vote for the other party come November if we do not have a united ticket.

    See the problem is that the Party is divided HALF and HALF… This is a tricky one and they better figure out a way out because I do think the Democrats will loose the election if Hillary and Obama can get it together in some sort of compromise.

    MAC will get my vote!!!

    February 14, 2008 at 5:11 pm |
  132. Calev Rhyason

    Well that all depends on if they want to win the next election or not.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:11 pm |
  133. Carol Hudson - Chattanooga, Tn.

    Obama did campaign in Florida. He ran TV ads in that state and excused his breaking of the rules by saying that he had to run those ads in order to run other ads across the country. I don't believe this. Hillary did not campaign in Florida. In Michigan, Obama's name wasn't on the ballot but one of his influential supporters in Michigan urged all Obama supporters to vote 'Uncommitted'. They did – by the thousands. She still got more votes. I think it was down right stupid of the Democratic Party to refuse to seat those delegates from those two states. Now, it is almost impossible to seat these delegates without some sort of backlash from Obama's supporters. I wonder what they would have wanted had he won in those two states. However, those voters should have their voices heard. I thought it was a constitutional right that all of us had to vote and have our vote counted. I discovered in 2000 that this was not true. I have also learned that nothing has changed. It's just a different political party pulling our strings.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:12 pm |
  134. Rich Uckmann

    Seat them based on the votes cast for specific candidates. Those that cast votes for uncommited in Michigan should go to the person winning the nomination.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:13 pm |
  135. Bukky, Baltimore

    Dont count them. If she cared about the right of the voterrs to be counted she would not have agreed to the DNC rules. She didnt care about FL or MI when she tought she was going to skate to the convention. The DNC passed a rule and these states violated it because they wanted to be "more important'.

    The fact that they were not going to count greatly changed campaigns of Hillary and Obama. Its sucks for FL and MI but it would not be fair to Obama if they counted. I mean some people didnt vote bc they thought it would be moot.

    And the ONLY reason Hillary is screaming that they count now is becasue she is loosing. If it werre the other way around she would be having a fit and claiming that "rules were rules".

    February 14, 2008 at 5:16 pm |
  136. Ralph- Michigan

    Consider them gone. You can't make a rule and then because it may benefit someone, change the rule. No do overs.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:16 pm |
  137. Bill from NC

    The DNC will have no choice but to swallow hard and stick to their decision. Allowing Clinton to claim delegates from a state in which Obama was not even on the ballot would cause chaos amongst Democratic voters. The DNC doesn't want that kind of negative portrayal heading in to the general election. The states were warned, period

    February 14, 2008 at 5:17 pm |
  138. lin

    Florida belongs to Hillary, case close.All of the candidates names were on the ballot and a 1500000 people voted.Obama is already starting to take a page from the Bush playbook and talking about lawers.She won fair and square the proof is she kept on winning on Feb5 in the big states where Obama, Kennedys,Oprah ,Schriver campaigned and still lost those states.Michigan has to be redonned.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:17 pm |
  139. Unbelievable

    Simple:

    Rules are rules. Hillary knew the rules going in – and agreed to them. So she is being nothing but a spoiled sport asking for them to be changed now, and is also running scared knowing that she is going to lose. She didn't care when she thought she had the election locked up – but once she was running behind, she started to care – that is a typical Clinton move.

    Fair is fair – if she really wants them to count – then she should give up two states that she won – so Michigan for New York and Florida for California.

    Dan

    February 14, 2008 at 5:21 pm |
  140. Emilio

    Jack, In Nevada Barack Obama threatened to go to court to make sure that workers could hold caucases at their work place. At that time his stated reason was that he wanted to protect every individuals right to be heard in the voting process, a very admirable position. However, with regards to the primary's in Florida and Michigan, he has the oposite point of view. He wants to make sure that the delegates from those states are not counted because of some rule the Demcratic leadership passed in order to protect the early position of Iowa and New Hampshire. Why is it that he thinks we need to protect the voices of the people of Nevada, but not the voices of the people of Florida and Michigan? Can it be because he lost both states?

    February 14, 2008 at 5:23 pm |
  141. Clinton/Obama

    They should count the votes. In a tight election like this, no one should be left out regardless of who they vote for.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:27 pm |
  142. Bonnie

    The American people took the time to go out and vote and each vote should be counted. It's just that simple. We are the people.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:27 pm |
  143. Leland

    It is understandable why the DNC had to discipline Florida and Michigan concerning the unauthorized moving up of their primaries. They should make a policy, including retroactively, of changing the primaries of such rogue states to the back of the line. The people of these states still deserve a ballot – a voice. Addressing the current dilemna the candidates should be given, say, a week to come in and politic the electorate before their primaries at the end of the current primary season. The previous DNC decision, in effect, prevented this. Democrats in both these states deserve an opportunity to meet with and listen to the candidates in person or in state. If the DNC doesn't provide this opportunity and if they summarily give the states to Mrs. Clinton in some kind of tie-breaking effort, they will have the same kind of meddling scandal that is threatened by the growing Superdelegate debate which favours the long-established, foot-on-the-ground candidate.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:30 pm |
  144. Melissa Odom

    People have to remember this is not about Obama, Clinton or the DNC and their rules. It is about voters and making sure all votes get counted.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:30 pm |
  145. Paula M.

    I think the only fair way to do it is to have a caucas in both states to settle this once and for all(Florida and Michigan). It is hard to believe a person of Hillary Clinton's status in American government can stoop so low to try to take the unearned votes from the other candidates. If she does not play fair with her own constituants, how is she going to be able to make a difference in the rest of the world. This action on her part will always remain with me. I will be embarrassed if she is going to represent USA to the rest of the world. This could have been something Bush would do, but not her. I am extremely dissappointed in this whole mess.

    Paula – CA

    February 14, 2008 at 5:30 pm |
  146. Don Slowik

    The DNC should stick to the rules they all agreed to in the beginning of the process. If they start changing rules halfyway through the game it can become slippery slope.

    For starters, they had better also take another look at the New Hampshire primary. In the opinion of the NH State Supreme Court (Akins vs. Sec. of State, Aug '06), the ballot used by the Democrats was unfair...

    February 14, 2008 at 5:30 pm |
  147. Tony McCullough

    Jack, They Should Be Seated, The People Have Spoken, Their Votes Should Be Counted And Seated, How many Other States Moved They're Primaries Or Caucuses Up, I Hardly Even Know When To Go Vote Anymore!!

    February 14, 2008 at 5:31 pm |
  148. BAWilliams

    After all states have voted, split the delegates from these states between Clinton and Obama based on their percentage of the total votes obtained. If Clinton has 47%, she should get 47% of the total.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:31 pm |
  149. Martin Pittioni

    There are no good solutions to this – except for avoiding the problem altogether by uniting around a nominee prior to the convention.

    Rewarding Michigan and Florida parties for breaking DNC rules by allowing their delegates anyway is not fair. Changing the rules after the game is not fair. Rewarding Hillary for breaking her pledge to remoive her name from the Michigan ballot is not fair.

    And yet the appearance of a voiceless Florida and Michigan is distasteful, no matter that it is the fault of the local Democratic Party officials in those two states. Those party officials should all resign, they created this mess.

    The only way for this to have a somewhat satisfactory ending is to have Obama build on his lead in the remaining primaries so he becomes the clear favorite and for Hillary to step aside prior to the convention.

    Written from New York

    February 14, 2008 at 5:32 pm |
  150. Don Slowik, NH

    The DNC should stick to the rules they all agreed to in the beginning of the process. If they start changing rules halfyway through the game it can become a slippery slope.

    For starters, they had better also take another look at the New Hampshire primary. In the opinion of the NH State Supreme Court (Akins vs. Sec. of State, Aug ‘06 -Google it), the ballot used by the Democrats was unfair…

    February 14, 2008 at 5:32 pm |
  151. Jeff in E. Lyme, CT

    Jack,
    The DNC was wrong to act as Dictator over the States and the States were wrong to buck the DNC without some sort of diplomacy. The Florida & Michigan Democratic Parties & the DNC should resolve to re-run the primaries along with allowing time for Canidates to campaign in those states. This the only way for the Democratic Party to hold the Moral High-ground over 7+ years of corruption.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:33 pm |
  152. Sean

    Jack, I hear you and Lou Dobbs rail about politicians breaking the rules every night of the week. You should know the answer to this question! Florida and Michigan were told what would happen to them if they broke the rules, and now they have to face the consequences of their actions. Its unfortunate, but the voters in these states should blame the leadership of their state parties and not the national leadership of the Democratic party. Its about time we set an example for the nation and all follow the rules.

    Sean
    Stamford, CT

    February 14, 2008 at 5:34 pm |
  153. Ray of Phoenix

    If the votes of the democrat's in these states aren't going to count it's time they consider becoming republician

    February 14, 2008 at 5:34 pm |
  154. Denise Johnke (Florala, AL)

    Jack,
    Obama need to quit whining! He said he would not campaign in either state and he ran television adds in Florida before the election and still lost! So...he broke the rule from the start!

    February 14, 2008 at 5:35 pm |
  155. Jim in Utah

    This along with the fears that superdelegates might overturn the will of the elected delegates at the convention, could cause serious problems for the Democrats, and especially for Hillary if she manages to get the nomination.

    When the DNC decided to invalidate the FL and MI primary results because of the early primaries, all the candidates, including Hillary, agreed, and pledged not to campaign in those states. Clinton then chose to ignore that pledge, and campaign in both states; she was in fact the only leading candidate not to remove her name from the MI ballot. Because of that, she wants to claim a victory?

    I think this is going to blow up in Hillary's face, and become one more example of why her campaign is sputtering out.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:37 pm |
  156. Daniel B.

    Clinton should be awarded the Michigan and Florida delegates. The party's implementation of the Superdelegate system demonstrates its ambition to choose the candidate who is most electable in a general election, even to the point where the popular vote may be overturned. So if the Democratic Party uses superdelegates who may potentially strip voters of their influence, then the party should indisputably consent to granting Clinton the Florida and Michigan delegates. If the Michigan and Florida delegates decided the nomination, people would be more satisfied than if superdelegates chose the winner.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:38 pm |
  157. Manny Wittmann

    Any person knowledgeable in statistics evaluation will see that Hillary
    has no chance (even if some of the polls is not accurate) to win the
    pledged delegate race. OF COURSE, THE MEDIA WILL NEVER ADNMIT THIS, AS BY MAINTAINING THE SUSPENSE THEY MAKE MORE MONEY!!)

    And of cause, to assume that the professional politicians (superdelegates) will be willing to shift the nomination to her, or
    that the DNC will seat Hillarys delegates from Florida and Michigan,
    are irresponsible dreams, as such would mean that that the Obama
    majority of voters (especially blacks and youth) will not support Hillary in the General election, therefore it would be a suicide,

    So, now that the GOP has squared its problem of the nomination,
    the only reason why the Clintons would not take the way out would be
    their limitless ambition

    TOM ("Manny")

    February 14, 2008 at 5:39 pm |
  158. James

    What should about Michigan and Forida delegates? SEAT THEM NATURALLY. I think all states in the Union should get to vote, if they`re going to be taxed.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:40 pm |
  159. Evelyn

    They should count as is. Voters turned out in large numbers,In Florida the only campaigning done was TV ads run by Obama and in Michigan Obama told his supporters to vote uncommited which they did. The people have voted .

    February 14, 2008 at 5:42 pm |
  160. Ray

    florida should be seated almost 2million voters came out and obama snuck a t.v. add in florida but michican should'nt count since hillary's name was the only one on the ballad

    February 14, 2008 at 5:43 pm |
  161. Kevin from Elk Grove, CA

    Hillary has a solution - that's her business - but it wouldn't be fair - that's somebody else's business.

    The Democratic Party must live up to its name, and make certain this never happen again.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:45 pm |
  162. becky

    The delegates should not be counted......They were warned what would happen......I am so interested really Jack that for all I care you could let all the players in this game play checkers and may the best person win...........

    Becky in Kentucky

    February 14, 2008 at 5:47 pm |
  163. Ken from Michigan

    I think that Michigan should hold a Caucus. The peoples vote needs to matter. Especially all the new voters. Also a Caucus would be a fun and new experience. It would allow an undecided voter to hear some reason why we should vote for Obama or Clinton.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:47 pm |
  164. Mike Moran

    Does anyone remember an election stolen from Al Gore a few years ago? If the DNC chooses to seat those delegates, especially the ones from Michigan, then they will cheat Obama if he is ahead. Hillary Clinton chose to keep her name on the ballot in Michigan knowing full well that she would handily win and then simply whine to get the delegates seated. It seems to me that she has tried to take shortcuts to the nomination by staying on the Michigan ballot, overlooking the little states and going after the big ones, and running her husband and daughter around as extensions of her to convince superdelegates and certain large voting populations to hand her a win. If the DNC seats those delegates I think that many people who once considered themselves Democrats would find themselves as independents since that action would be tantamount to the GOP's winner take all philosophy. It's not fair to the people.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:49 pm |
  165. Dan Quinn

    States have the right to choose their own election dates. The florida and michigan delagates should be seated at the convention to cast the ballot according to the state voters will. The Democratic Convention Committee must bend to the will of these voters.

    Columbus, Ohio

    February 14, 2008 at 5:50 pm |
  166. Sam Fairview, Texas

    That’s kind of like closing the barn door after the horse it out now isn't it? I suppose they will just make up some other new rules to play by. That is what they do when things are not going exactly the way they want them. Hell why not just rewrite the constitution while they are at it? No one follows it anymore anyway.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:53 pm |
  167. Dolly W.

    Every vote should count, no matter what. NYC

    February 14, 2008 at 5:53 pm |
  168. Tom from Illinois

    They shouldn't count the results if the candidates were barred from campaigning there – and in Michigan many major candidates were removed from the ballot. The outcome of these elections would have likely been different if the primaries occurred normally. On the other hand, ignoring two large states isn't going to do the Democrats any favors come November. They should urge the two states to reschedule their primaries now, or at least let the delegates participate to some degree at the convention as superdelegates.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:58 pm |
  169. Jamie in L.A.

    If the DNC decides to count the delegates from Florida and Michigan, or even re-do the primaries, then why have rules in the first place? And furthermore, why even have an election? If we want someone who applies the rules only when they are convenient, we've already found our man. Let's just leave him in the White House for another eight years.

    February 14, 2008 at 5:59 pm |
  170. Roger Marco island Florida

    All Florida democratic delegates should be given to Obama,As he followed the rules spilled out by the DNC. Here we go again another Clinton lie and she's not even in office .

    February 14, 2008 at 6:09 pm |
  171. Christopher Bartholomew SEA, WA

    Nothing – Next time don't move up your primaries.

    February 14, 2008 at 6:11 pm |
  172. Mat (Cleveland, OH)

    If they seat Michigan's delegates, Uncommitted (who gained 40% of the Michigan vote) might have an unfair advantage over Senators Obama and Clinton, and I do not want to see him in office.

    February 14, 2008 at 6:11 pm |
  173. Paul Marsh

    The Democratic party can't afford to take the chance that angry democrats in Michigan and Florida wil stay away from the polls on election day. The credentials committee at the Democratic convention will vote to seat their delegates. For Michigan, Hillary will get the delegates committed to her and Obama will get the uncommitted delegates. The democratic voters who voted in the Michigan and Florida primaries simply can't be disenfranchisedby the DNC.

    February 14, 2008 at 6:11 pm |
  174. Ken KS

    Why punish the Michigan and Florida individual voter? They did their American, and party, duty and voted. Punish these two crucial states and John McCain and his running mate will be most grateful in November 2008.

    February 14, 2008 at 6:11 pm |
  175. Jay Sulenski

    Jack

    If the Clinton campaign wants votes to count from Michigan And
    Florida, then they should volunteer to shoulder the costs of
    setting up new elections in those states!

    February 14, 2008 at 6:15 pm |
  176. Eric Kean

    The rules were set, debated on, agreed upon, and now Hillary wants to change them. It shows she is desperate and reflects poorly on the Democratic Party. C'est la vie

    February 14, 2008 at 6:15 pm |
  177. Joshua Gardner

    Dear Jack,

    The rules for this game were set last summer. Both candidates agreed to abide by them, and so did the DNC. I think at this late in the game it is both unfair, and unethical for Democratic party to allow these votes to count. Allowing these votes to count will erode a substantial amount of the credibility that the candidates, and party as a whole have gained through this election.

    February 14, 2008 at 6:15 pm |